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Stutter in Baldur's Gate (BWP 8)


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#21 Darpaek

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 03:05 PM

The "script stutter" you refer (the stutter you don't have) to is pretty obvious, and easily fixed with a stutter test.

The stutter you have, I call the "Aerie/Nalia Stutter" because I could solve it by Ctrl-Ying Aerie or Nalia (but it returned upon Rez).

Have you tried #20 on the stutter list? It personally worked for me, plus another has reported recently that it worked for them. You should try it. Even if it doesn't work, it's quick and easy just to try. The guy who discovered it is really a genius.


this worked for me, i wonder how such things can work.


Man the dude that came up with that trick is frikkin AWESOME!!!!

#22 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:56 PM

... aaand the Hellstutter crept up on me after wandering around for a few days doing minor quests. Caught me mid-Planar Sphere, in fact. Seems the game's pretty much broken at this point. Maybe it's SCSI/II and their massive scripts doing it? Hell if I know. Could just be areas failing to unload/stop running scripts/whatever. I know I was hearing the town crier (the one that tells you about the Arena as part of some mod, not Town Crier N-whatshisname) from across the city for a while, even after returning to the Promenade and leaving it the correct way. He shut up eventually, but for a while there I could still hear him. Anyway, that's it for me for now.

Well, if you still have this installation, could you install the LStest mod from my FAQ, it will say what script is currently running and which line, so if you see one line popping up all the time, you know it's causes stuttering...

this worked for me, i wonder how such things can work.

Man the dude that came up with that trick is frikkin AWESOME!!!!

No he is not, cause the idiot that came up with that is still bragging about it like he is some kind of hero when that's not true.

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#23 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 06:05 AM

Did a little experiment in my own game, as I started to experience some small lags once I had explored Baldurs Gate a little.

What I did was manually delete every saved variable in my savegame with shadowkeeper and load it up in BG.
The results were clear... Even if the variables didn't cause the lag directly the lag definitively went away without them.
I tried all of the tips on the list first, so I have done my best to eliminate external factors.

This certainly suggests that there are too many variables in BWP and that an effort needs to be made to fix the problem.

#24 Miloch

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 10:39 AM

This certainly suggests that there are too many variables in BWP and that an effort needs to be made to fix the problem.

Heh, that's a pretty tall order. You'd have to look at it on a mod-by-mod basis. The only thing I can think of would be for mods to set variables to zero once they're no longer needed, but they'd still probably be initialised, so I don't know if even that would help. The other thing would be to delete them from saved games as you've done, but that just isn't done. You could really hose your game that way if you're not careful. Maybe Wisp's routine that scans your saved games could be jiggled to do it though.

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#25 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 12:36 PM

I'll be damned... The importing savegame into TOB trick actually works for me too!

I made some interesting discoveries... The stutter came back once I quit BG2 and restarted it. This time however it was enough to just load the autosave I made in TOB on the previous occasion, then quit to main menu and load up my normal game. (No tob-saving needed)
Further testing showed that it didn't have to be the autosave I loaded, a manual save at about the same spot also did the trick. (It definitely had to be a save from a imported game though)

Besides this the effect generalized to all my saves with the stutter, not just the one imported.

This points towards something about how the information is stored in the cache in my mind... Especially since no changes were made to any of my savegames.

This did not work the first time I tried it because I had ambients enabled (though I was certain they were disabled) which in turn prevented ar4000.bcs from running some essential blocks (So nothing much happened when the map was loaded) effectively blocking the script from ever reaching the auto-save point. Manually saving didn't help. This is another example of how problematic ambients can be.

Edit: On an interesting side note did BGMain use close to exactly the same amount of system resources in both the stutter and no-stutter conditions. (about 50% cpu and 120k mem)

Edit2: I tried to monitor what temporary files the game uses/makes in the different savegames. The only obvious difference I could see was that the Tob-save creates a ar4000.bif in the cache folder, while the bg1 saves does not create/use any biff on loading.

Edit3: Done a lot of testing now, but I cannot get my head around this. I can't see any difference with the temporary files, which only leaves the physical memory cache. Maybe Tob prompts the game to store this information differently in the memory...?

Edit4: Retrieved information from the change log of the Tob 26498 patch: "Fixes a stutter bug experienced by some players that caused the game to pause momentarily every few seconds while playing." Maybe there is more information in the bioware forums...

Edited by OneEyedPhoenix, 12 October 2009 - 01:46 PM.


#26 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 10:06 PM

Edit4: Retrieved information from the change log of the Tob 26498 patch: "Fixes a stutter bug experienced by some players that caused the game to pause momentarily every few seconds while playing." Maybe there is more information in the bioware forums...

Didn't I told you that already...

Confirmed, I did:

this worked for me, i wonder how such things can work.

It probably has something to do with the in game saved data, that is forgotten by the game when you import the game to ToB. It could be the automated random dialog starting timer or something the like... I also rememberforgot reading that the ToB patch might have it's hands in the advancement of such a thing.

In this same thread.

Edit: On an interesting side note did BGMain use close to exactly the same amount of system resources in both the stutter and no-stutter conditions. (about 50% cpu and 120k mem)

You were playing on a Windowed format, so you were able to see the numbers as it stut-ed? And no, I do not recommend that you play in windowed mode if you are not testing nor starting a multiplaying session...
Hmm, what kind of computer, do you have, CPU, GPU, OS?

Edit2:

You do remove all the files from the Cache when you end your day, right?

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 12 October 2009 - 11:46 PM.

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#27 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:24 PM

Didn't I told you that already...


Thought you'd have something more constructive to say than "told you so"...

#28 Fouinto

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 03:06 AM

Edit: On an interesting side note did BGMain use close to exactly the same amount of system resources in both the stutter and no-stutter conditions. (about 50% cpu and 120k mem)

50% CPU is probably linked to dual-core CPU or the like (Pentium-D...)

#29 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 03:27 AM

50% CPU is probably linked to dual-core CPU or the like (Pentium-D...)


Confirmed. This, when I think closer about it, doesn't give us any useful information as the game uses as much cpu as it can in both conditions.

#30 Lollorian

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 03:38 AM

The BGMain.exe has its affinity set to use only one CPU at a time (usually CPU #0). So, in dual cores, it uses 1 outta 2 (ie 50%) ... Now, funny thing is, if I use the task manager to set its affinity to both CPUs, the overall CPU usage gets split up, but never crosses 50% (maybe it goes till 54% but still ... never even close to 70 :o)

Btw, yeah, I started getting stutters too :P from Nashkel :D (probably should get crackin on all those quests, but I wanna complete the Nashkel mines thing to kick Xzar and Monty and get me fab00 party again ... Minsc and Edwin FTW!!! :P)

Cheers,
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#31 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:20 AM

Edit: On an interesting side note did BGMain use close to exactly the same amount of system resources in both the stutter and no-stutter conditions. (about 50% cpu and 120k mem)

You were playing on a Windowed format, so you were able to see the numbers as it stut-ed? And no, I do not recommend that you play in windowed mode if you are not testing nor starting a multiplaying session...
Hmm, what kind of computer, do you have, CPU, GPU, OS?

Edit2:

You do remove all the files from the Cache when you end your day, right?


Didn't see your edit until now...

1. To see the numbers I put the Task manager window on top of BGMain. I always run the game in full screen.
As for the computer specs: Intel Core2 Duo, 2.2 Ghz, Geforce 8400M GS, 3GB ram laptop with win XP sp3)

2. Yes. The only file in my cache at the time of testing was the ar4000.bif, which the ToB savegame created anew each time I loaded it regardless of whether I manually deleted it or not.

Edit: I have brought this to the Bioware forum. Let's see what comes of it.

Edited by OneEyedPhoenix, 13 October 2009 - 04:35 AM.


#32 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 03:06 PM

Update:

I have had some feedback from a moderator at the bioware forum. He suggested looping script blocks, but might hopefully point us in the right direction later.

I have also discovered that there is no need to import the savegame into ToB! Loading an unaffected BGT savegame (from the same game) seems to work equally good. In my case I saved the game at the top level of Ramazit's tower (after the stutter first occurred) and somehow got an unaffected savegame out of it.

#33 Miloch

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 06:21 PM

He suggested looping script blocks, but might hopefully point us in the right direction later.

Well, we know that causes stutter but apparently not this. He did say:

Ah, it's not moderators you want, but BioWare employees who worked on BG2. Those are few and far between around here, these days. Perhaps contact Bio directly?

Maybe you should ask him how to go about doing that.

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#34 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 01:18 AM

Well, we know that causes stutter but apparently not this. He did say:

Ah, it's not moderators you want, but BioWare employees who worked on BG2. Those are few and far between around here, these days. Perhaps contact Bio directly?

Maybe you should ask him how to go about doing that.


I probably will.

#35 OneEyedPhoenix

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 02:17 PM

Well, the moderator at the bioware forum "bowed to my expertise" and said he didn't remember anything useful. If we could at least get a name to try then that might help...

BTW, have you tried any of this in your stuttering game Lollorian?

Edited by OneEyedPhoenix, 14 October 2009 - 02:25 PM.


#36 Darpaek

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 08:39 AM

I have also discovered that there is no need to import the savegame into ToB! Loading an unaffected BGT savegame (from the same game) seems to work equally good. In my case I saved the game at the top level of Ramazit's tower (after the stutter first occurred) and somehow got an unaffected savegame out of it.


Hahahaha! Anymore more hateraid Jarno? :P

I know the "fix" is apparently loading any save that doesn't have the stutter will fix certain stutters. I just suggested importing into ToB because that's the only way I could guarantee to someone else that they would have a stutter-free saved game (ie: a completely fresh ToB save) to use to clear their stutter.

I don't know about anymore, but several years ago David Gaider used to be REALLY AWESOME about answering PMs on the Bio boards. I'm sure he's pretty focused ATM on his upcoming launch of DA:O, but maybe if you shot him a short PM with your question and asking him to refer you to someone else from the BG2 team would garner a useful response.

#37 Arjento

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 06:03 AM

Is there any known Stutter Problems created in the "Bridge" sector in BG2 that anyone is aware of?

Since I've entered and explored it, I've been getting the worst stutter I've ever had.

Tried killing Aerie, the TOB import trick, and all the usual suspects in the FAQ.

Would to try and use the LStest to show you, but not sure how to get it to work.

Thanks.

#38 Lollorian

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 06:08 AM

Sorry bout not replying sooner :P

Well, the reason for my stutter is most probably:

18. Complete all the quests you are given, as in a long game, some scripts that are looking IF you have this-or-that quest active, will be screaming and causing lags, if their checks are in global category and used all the time... it can be very bad.

so, I might try completing all quests (I'm almost at mulahey's lair :P *sigh*)

Tried the save-reload thing ... no success :P (sorry Darpaek :D) the stutter is miniscule anyway ... not the kind that I got during my first encounter with Rhialto :o OMG ... was I afraid the PC was gonna crack that time :phear:

Cheers,
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#39 Arjento

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 12:04 PM

Sorry bout not replying sooner :P

Well, the reason for my stutter is most probably:

18. Complete all the quests you are given, as in a long game, some scripts that are looking IF you have this-or-that quest active, will be screaming and causing lags, if their checks are in global category and used all the time... it can be very bad.

so, I might try completing all quests (I'm almost at mulahey's lair :P *sigh*)

Tried the save-reload thing ... no success :P (sorry Darpaek :D) the stutter is miniscule anyway ... not the kind that I got during my first encounter with Rhialto :o OMG ... was I afraid the PC was gonna crack that time :phear:

Cheers,
Lol


YAHOO!

I knew it was one of my quests.

I found out it was the Gong quest. After completing it I done the TOB Import trick and I'm back in business!

#40 -White Hawke-

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 09:23 PM

Figure I would add my stutter here too :)

The whole load into tob and restart your orginal save is interesting, especially in my game since when I load into tob my stutter is gone completely, however, unfortunately reloading doesn't do anything to my baldurs gate save.

I have followed all the steps in Jarno's guide except number 19. Would doing this step help?