46 replies to this topic

[Annúgil]

What about other way of thinking: passive abilities for Draugrs? For example skill that gives ALL summoned Draugrs more HP or better THAC0, etc.
I wonder is it possible?

True. One of the passive abilities could, for example, reduce the chance of Draugrs attacking the party.

I'll think about it. Thanks!

[@vGur]

Updated (slightly) version oа shield as a weapon demo will spawn here tomorrow, if you read the readme, You know, that any middle shield (yes, round one too ) can be used as a weapon (deal damage, throwing opponent from the attcker), all needed files are added, and You have all kind of permissions to use those files. DO NOT CHANGE THE FILENAMES. Official release... I have no time to finish it right now (only tooltips left)

p.s. How do you think, is it right for Skalds to use an arquebuse, or should it be baned from them?

[Annúgil]

Updated (slightly) version oа shield as a weapon demo will spawn here tomorrow, if you read the readme, You know, that any middle shield (yes, round one too ) can be used as a weapon (deal damage, throwing opponent from the attcker), all needed files are added, and You have all kind of permissions to use those files. DO NOT CHANGE THE FILENAMES. Official release... I have no time to finish it right now (only tooltips left)

Many thanks! Now I have to figure out how to make the "shield bash" ability using your mod files

p.s. How do you think, is it right for Skalds to use an arquebuse, or should it be baned from them?

Well, I plan to stop Skalds from using any ranged weapon, so probably not

[Miloch]

If the mage doesn't make that roll, the elemental attacks the party. I thought this mechanic could be used for Draugr calling too. What do you think?

Could work. A lot of the encounters with draugar (plural of draugr or draugur) in the sagas were like this.

lesser enemies must make a morale check or flee?

Sure, they could have something like the Horror spell.

But I've been thinking that a tree focused solely on summoning Draugrs might be a bit boring. Maybe it'd be better if the skald could summon various mythical creatures? The question is...which?

Maybe a chance to summon an einheri (or valkyrie), a svartálf (drow) or perhaps a troll. Then again, you may want to keep it simple too, and work out the mechanics of the kit itself before worrying about more creatures.

1: BERSERK
Skald gains increased martial prowess (improved THAC0, number of attacks doubled...etc) , but loses access to his song, summoning abilities etc. Or maybe even loses control of his actions?

Sure, could work like existing berserker abilities (perhaps like Minsc's or Barbarian Rage too).

The only problem is that there's no way for an ability to check if the player has a shield equipped.

You could implement some nasty hackaround with HasItemEquipedReal in script form, but I wouldn't bother. Does the skald really need to inscribe the rune on a shield, or could he inscribe it anywhere on his person, armour or weapon? My guess is the latter would suffice. As for shield bash, see if @vGur's add-on will work for you - I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

[Lollorian]

Ooooh ... This is starting to look like something I'm gonna try. I've zero suggestions or Nordic lore to provide but I love the ideas that are floating in this thread

Summoner Bard ... <Cartman voice>KICKAZZ!!!

Cheers,
Lol

[Annúgil]

Could work. A lot of the encounters with draugar (plural of draugr or draugur) in the sagas were like this. Sure, they could have something like the Horror spell.

Allright. I will try it out.

Maybe a chance to summon an einheri (or valkyrie), a svartálf (drow) or perhaps a troll. Then again, you may want to keep it simple too, and work out the mechanics of the kit itself before worrying about more creatures.

Aye, you're right. But before I start the "proper" work I plan to iron out the ideas and finish the overview of the class. By the way, here's the reworked kit overview:

SKALD

These warrior-poets are as formidable with a blade as with the words.


Strengths

- +1 Bonus to THAC0 and Damage every 5 levels

- Can specialize (++) in: longswords, shortswords and axes.

- High Lore

- Can use bucklers, small and medium shields

- Can place two proficiencies in "Sword and Shield Style"


Weaknesses

- Must be partially Neutral in alignment

- Cannot use missile weapons

- Cannot cast spells

- Cannot Pick Pocket

- Cannot use armor heavier than Chain Mail

- Cannot place any proficiencies in "Two Weapon Fighting Style"


One more thing: I will most likely use this as well:
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=39299

I've got the author's permission. I only need to figure out appropriate songs.

Sure, could work like existing berserker abilities (perhaps like Minsc's or Barbarian Rage too).

Yeah, that might be interesting to see.

You could implement some nasty hackaround with HasItemEquipedReal in script form, but I wouldn't bother. Does the skald really need to inscribe the rune on a shield, or could he inscribe it anywhere on his person, armour or weapon? My guess is the latter would suffice. As for shield bash, see if @vGur's add-on will work for you - I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

Yeah, it's probably too much work. The rune could be inscribed on a weapon - but it would mean the buff would have be changed to a offensive one.

Here's another ability intended for the Battle tree:

3: Throat slash - requires Inscribe Rune

This vicious attacks silences the target and places a very potent bleed effect on them.

[Miloch]

The rune could be inscribed on a weapon - but it would mean the buff would have be changed to a offensive one.

Not necessarily - a weapon can be used to defend as well as attack. But I was just suggesting that if you keep the description of the skill rather vague, you don't have to worry about whether the skald has a shield (or anything else) equipped.

It sounds like you are trying to do something similar to the warrior skald "prestige class" from Races of Faerûn. It's 3rd edition, but maybe you could mine it for information or convert some of it to the 2e/BG2 engine.

The skald-song progression in it is pretty cool. Goes something like Bardic music > Words of rejuvenation > Demoralize > Marcher's chant > Inspire heroism > Words of fear > Words of panic > Words of fury.

Edit: link (only has a subset of the whole description unfortunately)

Edited by Miloch, 29 September 2009 - 10:46 AM.

[Annúgil]

Not necessarily - a weapon can be used to defend as well as attack. But I was just suggesting that if you keep the description of the skill rather vague, you don't have to worry about whether the skald has a shield (or anything else) equipped.

I guess you're right. I wanted to give the ability additional flavour and persuade players to use the shield, but it might be to tough to implement.

It sounds like you are trying to do something similar to the warrior skald "prestige class" from Races of Faerûn. It's 3rd edition, but maybe you could mine it for information or convert some of it to the 2e/BG2 engine.

The skald-song progression in it is pretty cool. Goes something like Bardic music > Words of rejuvenation > Demoralize > Marcher's chant > Inspire heroism > Words of fear > Words of panic > Words of fury.

Edit: link (only has a subset of the whole description unfortunately)

To be honest, I've never seen that "prestige class" before But it could be a nice source of inspiration anyway!

What do you think about the "throat slash" ability?

[Miloch]

What do you think about the "throat slash" ability?

I think it's ok - the epic warrior skald can get similar stuff like "overwhelming critical." But you may want to rethink the "requirements" - why would a skald need to know how to draw runes in order to slash someone's throat? Now on the other hand, the latter may be a more powerful ability gained at later levels, but strictly speaking, it doesn't really "require" the former skill, does it?

[Annúgil]

I think it's ok - the epic warrior skald can get similar stuff like "overwhelming critical." But you may want to rethink the "requirements" - why would a skald need to know how to draw runes in order to slash someone's throat? Now on the other hand, the latter may be a more powerful ability gained at later levels, but strictly speaking, it doesn't really "require" the former skill, does it?

I wanted to have something similar to http://www.gibberlings3.net/geomantic/, but you're right, it doesn't make that much sense Perhaps the order could be reveresed eg. Throat Slash -> Berserk -> Incribe Rune? Though that still isn't consistent.

I guess I will have to figure out a different ability.

Edited by Annúgil, 29 September 2009 - 11:47 PM.

[@vGur]

It's a shields, BUT, their use sword &shield style, as proficyency (as clubs use clubs prof) & Two weapon style (as any off-hand weapon) at SAME time, so change your stats accordingly


p.s. INSTALL THIS DEMO BEFORE UB1-ARQEBUSE's *ignore armor* COMPONENT, when using both!!!

Attached Files

•  UB_Demo3.rar   664.29K   184 downloads

Edited by @vGur, 30 September 2009 - 07:34 AM.

[Miloch]

Perhaps the order could be reveresed eg. Throat Slash -> Berserk -> Incribe Rune? Though that still isn't consistent.

Maybe Berserk -> Throat Slash (needs to know how to enter a frenzy before learning the move to slash someone's throat). I could see Inscribe Rune being a prerequisite to Summon Draugr - maybe you need separate paths like "Combat" and "Arcane Lore" or something.

[@vGur]

All shields that could be used as weapon is in list 2da (mshields), and when that ability used those shields become items from 2nd column of this 2da, so U can create script, that grants U offhand thac0 bonus, when one of this items is used. This way U can avoid two-weapon style, if you want (coz to hit someone w shield U deffinately need few points in shield prof & some offhand bonus)

p.s. Looks like great kit!

[Jarno Mikkola]

Is there actually a way to bar the skald from using spells altogether? I've been looking at it and I can't seem to find it anywhere...

Well, you can make him not able to cast his own spells by making the kit cast a spell(in the CLABBA04.2da) that has that effect. You can also remove the spell scroll usability from the Skalds, but that's a bit heavy handed...

[Jarno Mikkola]

Hm, he'd still be forced to pick them at level ups, though... Still I guess that's probably the only way?

You probably mean the selecting of the spells during the creation of the character, it's maid only at the start of the game, and if you play a the Skald from the BGT to ToB, you never even get to choose a spell to learn, except from scrolls, but we can also remove that by locking the Int Stat to 8 and making sure that that number cannot learn spells(I actually did this for the Divine Wizard kit just recently, in the MMKv1.01L).
Say here's the spell you can use to disable the spell casting...
 ij#displ.zip   163bytes   133 downloads
When you open the spell from inside that archive and put it inside the override folder in your game folder, and then put the "AP_ij#displ" to the ABILITY3 lines first row(under the level index 1)... or line-row/row-line what-ever.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 26 December 2010 - 11:38 AM.

[Annúgil]

So I've been fiddling with a new spell (war horn) for this kit. Here it is.

Basically, it's supposed to confer a -1 penalty to saving throws and thac0 to everyone around the skald.

The ability would be upgraded 3 times (levels 12, 14, 18). Each upgrade would do the following:

2. Add a Fear component.
3. Add a Silence component.
4. Add a Stun component + Wing Buffet component (pushing enemies aside)

On top of that, each version increases the penalties (last rank, for an instance, confers a -4 penalty to saving throws and thac0 to everyone around the skald. It also makes each component harder to resist.

But I've run into some problems - the range is completely borked, for once. I'd be very grateful if anyone could take a look at this spell.

After fixing those problems, I'd like to add an unique icon and graphical effects for that spell (I'm not sure which 3D effects would fit though). And of course, a new sound.
Is there a way to edit the already existing spell icons? And to add new soundfiles?

Attached Files

•  warhorn.spl   1.91K   174 downloads

Edited by Annúgil, 26 December 2010 - 02:51 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

But I've run into some problems - the range is completely borked, for once.

This is why you need to use the opcode#251(Spell effect: Change Bard Song Effect) in the extended headers... Like these:
 Warhorn.zip   994bytes   150 downloads
The "warhorn.spl" is the primary spell, but the other need to be in the override folder too, cause it uses them.
Or at least I think so, I could be wrong of course. And yes, I went and used your spell with copy paste when I did that.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 26 December 2010 - 03:36 PM.

[Annúgil]

Hm, are you sure about that? There's the archer's ability "called shot" which is just one spell, with 4 extended headers and it works fine...

About that range - I've been checking everywhere, but can't see to find it - the range is currently whole map :/

Edited by Annúgil, 26 December 2010 - 04:05 PM.