40 replies to this topic

[Miloch]

Mielikki's ranger-priests are called Needles, as per Faiths & Avatars. If I were you, I wouldn't spend a lot of time making an actual kit out of this. I'd just give the NPC the Stalker kit, change the kit label (for her only) to Needle of Mielikki, take away the mage spells the stalker gets and give her Mielikkian spells instead (such as Banish Blight, Wood Sword and Create Treant). The hard part of that is making the spells, and the hardest part of that is making custom BAMs if you're not duplicating existing ones (but there are people around here who can do that). And then you'll have to get a treant into the game, which is easy if you're using Infinity Animations but if you want it to be Mac compatible, you'll have to find an "unused" vanilla slot (there aren't any on megamod installs) or overwrite an "underused" one.

[Eric P.]

The multiclassing talk is moot since the engine doesn't allow ranger/druids anyway. The closest you'll get is ranger/cleric or fighter/druid.

I don't even know where these high-level spells came from - I mean, obviously a 3E source, but 3E still limits rangers to lv1-4 magic. There's no reason to even involve material from another edition since 2E already provides all the necessary info.

As described in Faiths & Avatars, a Needle is a ranger with access to two extra spheres - and that's it. It's perfectly balanced within BGII provided you can find some interesting spells in those spheres. The second-level ones listed in the book, "Stalk" (basically invisibility in woodland areas only) and "Wood Sword" (magic weapon, dmg 1/lvl, duration 1rd/lvl), would be a good start.

You could possibly simulate the favoured enemy mechanic, but it shouldn't be necessary and has no basis in lore.

Perhaps the whole thing should be scaled to this, in which case I see no need for a kit. The additional spells could be added to the character as innate abilities. The title of Needle would stand. The end. OK.

Thanks,
Eric

[Eric P.]

Mielikki's ranger-priests are called Needles, as per Faiths & Avatars. If I were you, I wouldn't spend a lot of time making an actual kit out of this. I'd just give the NPC the Stalker kit, change the kit label (for her only) to Needle of Mielikki, take away the mage spells the stalker gets and give her Mielikkian spells instead (such as Banish Blight, Wood Sword and Create Treant). The hard part of that is making the spells, and the hardest part of that is making custom BAMs if you're not duplicating existing ones (but there are people around here who can do that). And then you'll have to get a treant into the game, which is easy if you're using Infinity Animations but if you want it to be Mac compatible, you'll have to find an "unused" vanilla slot (there aren't any on megamod installs) or overwrite an "underused" one.

Wherever possible, I'd prefer to use existing material. Doing the treant...I see that as something like what I did to create the Beast of Malar, but adding to that whatever the game uses as a summoning process.

- E

[Chevalier]

I think Infinity Animations has treants as part of the mod.

[berelinde]

Infinity Animations isn't Mac compatibe and Eric P. mods on a Mac, so that presents a few difficulties.

[Eric P.]

Infinity Animations isn't Mac compatibe and Eric P. mods on a Mac, so that presents a few difficulties.

I was unaware that it wasn't Mac compatible. I'll delete it, in that case (never installed, just extracted).

- E

[berelinde]

It modifies the exe, doesn't it? But before you go and delete it, you might want to ask in the IA forum or check the readme. The readme should say which platforms it's intended for.

Edit: No, I'm misinformed. The readme gives installation instructions for Linux, and most of what works on Linux works on Mac, so it should be fine.

Edited by berelinde, 13 June 2010 - 05:01 AM.

[Eric P.]

Needle should remain as the kit name. I'm now thinking that there could be a warrior cult called Mielikki's Hand, which may or may not provide a character with added benefits. It could exist simply for "flavor."

As for duplicating Stalker as a basis for Needle, care is needed to not give away too many special abilities, but maybe that's stating the obvious. I see the point in using it as a template. Still feeling that a kit that grants nothing but a few spells isn't a worthwhile investment of time and resources. Something should be added, I think. I wouldn't give access to spells above 4th level, as that's already established as a ranger's limit.

As for IA, yes, I'll hold onto it. No harm in seeing if it will install and work as it should. I have all components.

- E

[Miloch]

It modifies the exe, doesn't it? But before you go and delete it, you might want to ask in the IA forum or check the readme. The readme should say which platforms it's intended for.

Edit: No, I'm misinformed. The readme gives installation instructions for Linux, and most of what works on Linux works on Mac, so it should be fine.

It works on Linux (in theory) because it works on Windows, not because it works on Mac (presumably most Linux users are still using the Win .exe and running it through Wine, a Win emulator). So, no, it doesn't work on Mac, as Eric P. knows, because we did quite a bit of troubleshooting via forum posts and PMs and even Erephine looked at it and said it might be possible for some 1PP components but probably not IA. But Eric P. seems to have forgotten this, or perhaps this is a different Eric P. .

Anyway, BP and CtB already add the treant to the third zombie slot (MZO3) so in theory another mod could use the same slot without conflict (unless someone wants to use the IC_ZOMBIE2 animation in its proper slot, that is). Then IA can come along and reassign it properly (on Windows and Linux anyhow) like it already does.

(Incidentally, I didn't see vilkacis' post earlier, but we are essentially saying the same thing I think.)

[Eric P.]

It modifies the exe, doesn't it? But before you go and delete it, you might want to ask in the IA forum or check the readme. The readme should say which platforms it's intended for.

Edit: No, I'm misinformed. The readme gives installation instructions for Linux, and most of what works on Linux works on Mac, so it should be fine.

It works on Linux (in theory) because it works on Windows, not because it works on Mac (presumably most Linux users are still using the Win .exe and running it through Wine, a Win emulator). So, no, it doesn't work on Mac, as Eric P. knows, because we did quite a bit of troubleshooting via forum posts and PMs and even Erephine looked at it and said it might be possible for some 1PP components but probably not IA. But Eric P. seems to have forgotten this, or perhaps this is a different Eric P. .

Anyway, BP and CtB already add the treant to the third zombie slot (MZO3) so in theory another mod could use the same slot without conflict (unless someone wants to use the IC_ZOMBIE2 animation in its proper slot, that is). Then IA can come along and reassign it properly (on Windows and Linux anyhow) like it already does.

(Incidentally, I didn't see vilkacis' post earlier, but we are essentially saying the same thing I think.)

It's the same Eric P., and I didn't recall a definitive word about IA not functioning on Mac, but I do recall the thread. I'll hold onto the downloaded archives of the IA materials, in case a use for any of the content should one day arise, but for now, I'll remove all of it from my BGII game folder.

I do plan to install BP, so hopefully some of the content will be of use in this endeavor...

Thanks,
Eric

[Eric P.]

If not a kit, then perhaps there's another way to explain how Mielikki grants the couple-three extra spells, and then translate that into game mechanics. Would it be unfair to claim that a particular NPC was especially favored by the Lady of the Forest, and thus granted the additional spells? I was hoping for a solution that allows the player to choose the benefits for his or her own character, but it might be simpler to give the extras to an NPC. I really want to find the best solution...

Another approach might be to forgo the Needle kit, keep the title for purely thematic purposes, and then create a kit that gives a ranger the same advantages and disadvantages as would a ranger/druid, since this combination isn't allowed in IE games. This Kit would be called the Shadoweir, in agreement with 2E published materials. If possible, the kit would be available to a Human, Half-Elf, or Elf, male or female, who is a ranger or to a druid.

That's about where my mind currently rests on this issue.

- E

[Zyraen]

Sorry about the mix up on Ranger / Druid, got it confused with Ranger / Cleric.
I don't see much point in giving a kit that provides Ranger / Druid benefits. I like Miloch's Idea the most - use a Stalker kit for the NPC, rename it to Needle (or any name that you like), and script in adding a few special spells. Done.

[Eric P.]

Sorry about the mix up on Ranger / Druid, got it confused with Ranger / Cleric.
I don't see much point in giving a kit that provides Ranger / Druid benefits. I like Miloch's Idea the most - use a Stalker kit for the NPC, rename it to Needle (or any name that you like), and script in adding a few special spells. Done.

My habit of obsessing over things annoys even myself at times I'll make an attempt at creating such a modified version of the Stalker using NI (no need for backstab ability, but a set 99% chance to hide is appropriate here). I'll definitely have questions about the scripting, and anything else that's not covered in NI.

Thanks,
Eric

[Eric P.]

Sorry about the mix up on Ranger / Druid, got it confused with Ranger / Cleric.
I don't see much point in giving a kit that provides Ranger / Druid benefits. I like Miloch's Idea the most - use a Stalker kit for the NPC, rename it to Needle (or any name that you like), and script in adding a few special spells. Done.

My habit of obsessing over things annoys even myself at times I'll make an attempt at creating such a modified version of the Stalker using NI (no need for backstab ability, but a set 99% chance to hide is appropriate here). I'll definitely have questions about the scripting, and anything else that's not covered in NI.

Thanks,
Eric

And so, as I can't stop picking at this scab, I've set up my .tp2 and exported CLABRN03.2DA, which applies to the Stalker kit, to a folder "kit" inside my mod folder. I'll have to rename this .2DA file, but not sure yet what to call it. I replaced all the abilities in that file with ****, so I can go back in and assign the abilities Stalk, Wood Sword, and Create Treant, once I've created those things, at the appropriate levels. I'll research on how to create these things, and find an appropriate forum (probably at G3) to discuss/ask about doing so.

Thanks,
Eric

[Eric P.]

Base the kit on the Stalker. Drop the Stalk, Wood Sword, and Treant stuff. Add Call Woodland Beings as an innate. Allow for up to three stars in Scimitar. That should do it, I think (but I know I'm missing something).

- E

[Eric P.]

Base the kit on the Stalker. Drop the Stalk, Wood Sword, and Treant stuff. Add Call Woodland Beings as an innate. Allow for up to three stars in Scimitar. That should do it, I think (but I know I'm missing something).

- E

Of course, one thing I missed there was to eliminate the backstab from the Stalker. It's completed now; all that remains is to decide whether to offer this as a kit the player could choose, or to leave it as an NPC-only kit. Any thoughts about this?

Thanks,
Eric

[Jarno Mikkola]

... all that remains is to decide whether to offer this as a kit the player could choose, or to leave it as an NPC-only kit. Any thoughts about this?

Thanks,
Eric

There is a limit of the possible kits that's about 255, and so if you don't offer it to the player, you'll be eating the spot or two if they install Refinements, so you can make a subcomponent that offers the player to play with the kit and other subcomponent that doesn't put extend the K_x_y.2da's and there you have it... optional kit.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 03 July 2010 - 08:00 AM.

[Eric P.]

... all that remains is to decide whether to offer this as a kit the player could choose, or to leave it as an NPC-only kit. Any thoughts about this?

Thanks,
Eric

There is a limit of the possible kits that's about 255, and so if you don't offer it to the player, you'll be eating the spot or two if they install Refinements, so you can make a subcomponent that offers the player to play with the kit and other subcomponent that doesn't put extend the K_x_y.2da's and there you have it... optional kit.

I like the idea of making it available to players. Don't know yet how to set up subcomponents in my .tp2, so I'd appreciate some information (is it in WeiDU documentation?).

Thanks,
Eric

[Ipsissimus]

Yep, it's there (linked directly to tutorial). But it shouldn't be necessary to have it as a subcomponent, as it doesn't conflict with the mod, does it? It should just be an additional component.

[Eric P.]

Yep, it's there (linked directly to tutorial). But it shouldn't be necessary to have it as a subcomponent, as it doesn't conflict with the mod, does it? It should just be an additional component.

As the mod stands now, everything gets installed in one go; there are no components to choose. That's why I wanted to find out about breaking it down. The kit functions as it should.

Thanks!
Eric

Edited by Eric P., 03 July 2010 - 01:55 PM.