31 replies to this topic

[Choo Choo]

Religion and politics are the most surefire ways to turn a discussion into a flamewar. Thank you!

a fair stab, although both can be rather delightful (or at least interesting) topics amongst the well-informed and [not over]sensitive. 999 out of 1,000 instances, of course - and a conservative estimate, at that - don't qualify, of course

Oh, I agree that both politics and religion are interesting topics, but they're interesting topics best discussed elsewhere - so, back to the original topic.

[Reverendratbastard]

so, back to the original topic.

i'm entirely on the fence as to whether more or less restrictive rulesets are inherently more or less (irrespective) fun - some people appreciate some challenges. (i appreciate them in moderation...) i guess the only thing missing, for now, (if AoE isn't one's cup of tea, and assuming that the 'tutututu'?[iwd2-3e conversion] is dead in its tracks) is a mod to fully customize weapon proficiency availability per class[/race...]?

[Choo Choo]

Well, there already is Ashes of Embers for that, over at PPG; it makes weapon use dependent on stats, rather than class. Proficiencies are the same, however.

[Reverendratbastard]

(if AoE isn't one's cup of tea,

[Choo Choo]

...ah, yeah. This is why I should be sleeping at 2:40am, rather than staying up trying to think. Apologies!

[Wintershade]

Oh, Jarno and Wintershade, please don't talk about religion. Religion and politics are the most surefire ways to turn a discussion into a flamewar. Thank you!

I wholeheartedly agree. I just mentioned religion (or actually faith) as one of the examples where nobody needs to see or hear something in order to accept that particular something as possible or even true.

And that goes especially for various fantasy stories, which involve dozens and hundreds of fantastic creatures, events, and other stuff, some of which belong to the millenia-old mythology, while others being made up just a few years ago.


My two points currently being - a) if clerics and mages can use slings, I see no reason for them not to use xbows, since those are even easier to learn; and b) just because 99% of pure-class mages cannot wield a longsword or a longbow, I think players shouldn't be restricted to such stereotypes.

[Jarno Mikkola]

and assuming that the 'tutututu'?[iwd2-3e conversion]

The Icewind Gate (BGII in IWDII engine) ? See it's not dead actually. Weimer's Beta is in the past yes... but but.

[Reverendratbastard]

and assuming that the 'tutututu'?[iwd2-3e conversion]

The Icewind Gate (BGII in IWDII engine) ? See it's not dead actually. Weimer's Beta is in the past yes... but but.

what a loopy thread. strangely entertaining. yes, in a sense this Ishad Nha is keeping the dream alive. i hope someone who can do the work takes notes on his hack-through

[Miloch]

Yes, it is loopy . Crossbows are not easier to use than slings. In fact, they're much harder to maintain (keep all the parts working) and of course, you would have to maintain it in order to keep using it. It is probably something you would have studied via years of experience. But instead, grasshopper, you were immersed in the rituals of your gods, so you learned how to commune with them instead, and call forth the holy power of their divine radiance at a wave of your hand. Crossbows, katanas... a priest needs not these things.

i guess the only thing missing, for now... is a mod to fully customize weapon proficiency availability per class?

I take it you are not fully versed in the optional components of Level 1 NPCs, the one mod to rule them all...

Edited by Miloch, 03 December 2011 - 04:07 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I take it you are not fully versed in the optional components of ... mod

Well, who really is fully versed with all of the three hundred plus possible mod once ?

[Wintershade]

Crossbows are not easier to use than slings. In fact, they're much harder to maintain (keep all the parts working) and of course, you would have to maintain it in order to keep using it. It is probably something you would have studied via years of experience. But instead, grasshopper, you were immersed in the rituals of your gods, so you learned how to commune with them instead, and call forth the holy power of their divine radiance at a wave of your hand.

This is all very true. Which is exactly why knights, crusaders and such throughout history all had their cute little assistants called squires who took care of that so that they don't have to.
If I remember the AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook correctly, a cleric is the equivalent of a historical crusader. Those didn't have to maintain and "take good care" od their weapons, their servants did that.
In a fantasy world, such as (A)D&D, even if your character doesn't have such a servant, any blacksmith can take care of that for you between your adventures (for a small price, of course).
And once you acquire a magic(k)al crossbow, you practically needn't take care of that at all, because such weapons cannot be broken.

So, even if maintenance is more difficult, that should be of no concern to a cleric. Which puts us back where we started - 1. aim the xbow, 2. pull the trigger, 3. repeat 1 and 2 until target is dead, 4. pay someone to clean up your xbow.

Crossbows, katanas... a priest needs not these things.

Exactly. Needs not. Doesn't mean he may not use them.

Edited by Wintershade, 06 December 2011 - 01:43 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

any blacksmith can take care of that for you between your adventures (for a small price, of course).

Just asking this, but do you actually know personally any blacksmith that knows how to maintain a crossbow ? Or a sword ... that doesn't take a lot of money to do that ... see the actual town merchant blacksmith usually needs to know a little about everything that has to do with metals, and not just about weapons.
And about the squires, well the game did never have such a feature... see they need food too, ups.

Crossbows, katanas... a priest needs not these things.

Exactly. Needs not. Doesn't mean he may not use them.

Well, in this rule system, it actually does mean that... You are very welcome always to make your own rule system and modify the games own(using mods), it's all up to you.

a cleric is the equivalent of a historical crusader.

Are you sure you mean the fighters of the army, and not the leaders... see, I see the role of the paladin to be the soldier of the "holy army", if not just normal fighters, while priests are the support staff, and commanders....
that actually run away when the army is overrun and there is no hope for victory...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 06 December 2011 - 05:14 AM.