3 replies to this topic

[Ascension64]

BG1

HIT  DAMAGE	 
0   0	 0
1   0	 0
2   1	 2
3   3	 3
4   3	 5
5   3	 5

BG1 manual says 4 stars should give +4 damage (listed as Dudleyville fix).

BG2

2DA V1.0
0
   HIT  DAMAGE  SPEED   
0   0	 0	   0
1   0	 0	   0
2   1	 2	   0
3   2	 2	   0
4   2	 3	   -1
5   2	 4	   -3

StrRef 9588:

Proficiency Slot Table:
1 slot: none
2 slots: +1 to hit, +2 to damage, an extra half attack.
3 slots: +2 to hit, +2 to damage, an extra half attack.
4 slots: +2 to hit, +2 to damage, an extra half attack. -1 to speed
5 slots: +2 to hit, +3 to damage, an extra half attack. -1 to speed

It is fine to have different effects between BG1 and BG2, but there is an inconsistency within BG2 between WSPECIAL.2DA and StrRef 9588. Which is 'more' correct?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Which is 'more' correct?

According to which rule set?
And one needs to remember that the difference is not listed on 0 to 1 level cause it's class dependent.

Now, if we go with the original rule set(BG1), there should be an extra half attack on 3 star mark, and on 5 star mark, if I remember it correctly... this is in G3tweakpack.

[vilkacis]

None of them seems entirely correct. The effects should differ somewhat between melee and ranged weapons, though, so it's going to be kind of difficult to implement something exact in BG2. According to the "Combat & Tactics" book, the effects are as follow for melee attacks:

Specialization: +1 to hit, +2 damage, +½ attack
Mastery: +3 to hit, +3 damage. +½ attack (total effect)
High Mastery: +3 hit, +3 damage, +½ attack, weapon speed up by one category, crit rate improved
Grand Mastery: +3 hit, +3 damage, +1½ attack (if I interpret the section right, see below), weapon speed up by one category, crit rate improved, weapon dice size improved by one.



The "weapon dice improved" probably can't be done, but it can be simulated by another +1 to damage (average for most weapons, and there aren't many weapons with d12 damage anyway).

So, something like this:

HIT  DAMAGE  SPEED   
0   0	 0	   0
1   0	 0	   0
2   1	 2	   0
3   3	 3	   0
4   3	 3	   -3
5   3	 4	   -3

That's assuming you actually have +½ APR at 2 and +1½ at 5; if not, the damage should probably be adjusted to make up for any extra or missing attacks. I'm not sure if -3 to speed matches "improve by one category", either.

Pretty much, the BG1 version appears closest, the BG2 ones seem rather nerfed. (Then again, the book states that a character should only be able to specialize in ONE weapon, so nerfing it in exchange for offering specialization in multiple weapons could also be seen as balanced.)

...hell, I no longer have any idea where I'm going with this post. Just interpret it however you want.

[Miloch]

It is fine to have different effects between BG1 and BG2, but there is an inconsistency within BG2 between WSPECIAL.2DA and StrRef 9588. Which is 'more' correct?

I explained the differences here. They nerfed things in the BG2 engine, probably because they realised it was a bit too powerful. If folks want to revert to the BG1 values, they can install the Tweaks component.