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How can I make BGT compatible mods?


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#21 cmorgan

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 03:37 PM

OK - analysis of what has been done/is available and what still needs doing to make The Vault play nicely with BGT (and since I love EasyTutu, play there or be able to be converted there as well).

The author has given some permissions to some folks, but there is no definitive answer as to what scope of freedom the modder(s) have to make changes in content (the assumption remains "no changes in content, the guy wrote what he wanted to write").

I have erebusant's good stuff, still in .dlg format partially broken out to .D. He is in the process of rebuilding .baf and item/creature patching. Erebusant, if you are reading this, get hold of the author of The Vault4BGT, as most of the toughest stuff (including area patching) is already done, and if you guys were to collaborate, I bet things would jump forward a huge amount.

A really nice person sent me the Vault4BGT version which someone kicked major tail on and revamped the .D files (it isn't ready for traification even thoug someone has started manually building .tras, as there are still some things that I can see will interfere with pre-existing states on BG content - but nothing that can't be readjusted to work). It has intact .BCS, but also .baf, so much of the conversion to modern non-destructive code was already done for this version. The problem is that these are the same as Josh Clue's originals - the tp2 code compiles .D, but the .D itself is a destructive overwrite -

BEGIN ~KEEPER~

IF ~~
THEN BEGIN 0
  SAY ~I apologize, but I cannot allow you to leave. Gorion wishes to see you as soon as possible.~
IF ~~
THEN EXIT
END

IF ~True()~
THEN BEGIN 1
  SAY ~Hold, travelers! Before you will be allowed entrance, you must donate a tome of great value to our libraries.~[AJAN03]
IF ~~
THEN REPLY ~We don't have a book, but I used to live here.~ GOTO 2
IF ~Global("Chapter","GLOBAL",7) PartyHasItem("BOOK68")~
THEN REPLY ~We have the book you require.~ DO ~TakePartyItem("BOOK68")~ GOTO 4
IF ~Global("Chapter","GLOBAL",7) PartyHasItem("BOOKDRW")~
THEN REPLY ~We have the book you require.~ DO ~TakePartyItem("BOOKDRW")~ GOTO 4
END

etc. etc.


which needs to be diffed with the original dialogue, to build stuff like

EXTEND_BOTTOM ~KEEPER~ 1
IF ~Global("Chapter","GLOBAL",6) PartyHasItem("BOOKDRW")~ THEN REPLY ~We have the book you require.~ DO ~TakePartyItem("BOOKDRW")~ EXTERN ~KEEPER~ Replacement4
END

Many of the minor characters simply BEGIN ~dialoguefile~ , which blows away the existing one and means that any changes and additions made by previous mods 9or fixpacks, etc.) will simpley dissapear.

Whoever did this version did a solid labor of love - most of the in-game existing .cres have been set up to patch rather than overwrite - that must have been some serious sweat equity. Mod added .cres are copied directly, without soundset info, so there would need to be some work done there to make it Tutu compatible (as Tutu has dynamic strrefs) but on BGT it would be very stable. Existing items, though, are drag and drop affairs - meaning that they should be moved to patching so that there are fewer compatibility problems (say, someone wants to use iiProjectileRetrieval, or other item mods that may upgrade or downgrade the same resource.) Regular items are not so bad. The area code is darned nice, too.

Ceepin's version 4 is not as far along, though (he?) has planned carefully and put an excel doc tracking variables and changes as he deciphers the mod and creates .D. The changes to 2DA files are overwrite still, and large chunks of the mod are missing - it may be that the package is missing something, or that Creepin is an organized, careful modder who is moving one change into the package at a time.

Looking through these, if Miloch survives RL immersion, I can see the possibility of a group of folks actually working this one out as a group activity - but there is still a good deal of grunt work to be done to make it both usable and non-destructive to other mods. It is in no way ready for PCU, or crossmod variables for a combined installer. This is definitely going to need serious work before hitting an install using standard Tutu mods, and right now would have to be put practically first in the install order. I cannot imagine the problems inherent in placing it on a BGT install, unless you did it first in the order right after BGT (and I am not sure that it wouldn't undo some of BGT's work, too).

I like the idea of this mod, but I have to say, I don't think I am the right dude to spearhead this one at all. First off, I have now read through three versions of the .Ds (.dlg and two .D treatments) and I would personally want to make major changes to the end dialogue structure
Spoiler
I may be able to assist with some .d stuff, and contribute small amounts of code here and there, but the stuff I would want to do to this mod would definitely exceed the "make the author's vision work as he wrote it". After close reading of the files, I am in love with the idea, but the implementation is such that I would install it and play through the main portion of the quest, but leave just before the climactic battle and uninstall it.

Minus the quest stuff, it looks like similar modifications are able to be made by combining other mods, while waiting for Miloch, Crepin, and erebusant to have more RL time to tackle this conversion. I think Salk is involved with Aiglebourne on an "improved creatures" mod that would cover the creature enhancements, igi's iiItem mod and several others provide both randomized and backstoried item additions (with less possibility of vampiric swords and items that do push some BG limits), and with SCS for Tutu/BGT, the need for bumping up standard BG creatures is also drastically reduced. My suggestion is to have some fun with these kinds of additions, and wait for these three modders to see how they are planning to proceed. If you want to assist them, I think the longest job would be to take a look at the items and pick apart what the differences are between the standard resources and the "enhanced" standard resources in the Vault4BGT version above. That would provide a list for one of them to be able to make changes to existing items rather than overwriting the originals.

#22 Miloch

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:05 PM

I dropped an analysis of what folks have done/not yet completed in another thread

Eh, do you have a crosslink for that?

I think cmorgan means this

[Cross-linked from this post to avoid redundancy.]Ah. Yes, well I did miss this one then (as I said, I skipped a bunch when I was catching up on posts :o).

Creepin's version 4 is not as far along

He did a version 5 after that.

Looking through these, if Miloch survives RL immersion, I can see the possibility of a group of folks actually working this one out as a group activity

Weeelll although I am very interested in this project I haven't actually volunteered to *gulp* work on it. I'm just trying to foist the work off on others 8). Given my workload it would be somewhat impractical, though I'll be happy to help on what I can.

After close reading of the files, I am in love with the idea, but the implementation is such that I would install it and play through the main portion of the quest, but leave just before the climactic battle and uninstall it.

Well then that sounds like an issue the needs to be addressed. I'd probably have the same feeling there, and I've seen other posts to that effect. Certainly I don't think the author intended for folks to drop the mod right before then end. I think simply omitting something problematic (as opposed to adding or changing material) wouldn't be warping original content too much, if at all. I really don't think the author would mind - he thanked Creepin for "seeking the 'greater modding good' " (i.e. revising the mod) on his website. And well, I think Creepin pointed out the same thing you did. Also I should point out, if you read the readme on that site, Clue was building off of previous authors' content. So it's not like anyone has a sacred claim on this material.

while waiting for Miloch, Crepin, and erebusant to have more RL time to tackle this conversion.

Again, I've got a lot of other projects to catch up on. Looks like there are several versions out there now - Clue's v4 and v5, Creepin's v4r and v5r, erebusant's version and this Vault4BGT (which may be erebusant's?). I've actually seen Creepin about the forum recently, though I combed back a ways and didn't see erebusant. Though I didn't see myself either, so that doesn't really mean much by my timescale...

So yeah, it'd be great if others are interested in this and want to help. If the whole "modding" idea scares you off, well, it shouldn't. Just dig in, hack apart other peoples' mods and ask a bunch of questions. That's what the rest of us did (well it's what I did and do, anyway).

Infinity Engine Contributions
Aurora * BG1 NPC * BG1 Fixpack * Haiass * Infinity Animations * Level 1 NPCs * P5Tweaks
PnP Free Action * Thrown Hammers * Unique Containers * BG:EE * BGII:EE * IWD:EE
================================================================
Player & Modder Resources
BAM Batcher * Creature Lister * Creature Checker * Creature Fixer * Tutu/BGT Area Map & List * Tutu Mod List
================================================================
"Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not 'that which has nothing beyond itself' that is infinite, but 'that which always has something beyond itself'." -Aristotle


#23 cmorgan

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 06:44 AM

Miloch, can you please toss me Creepin's v5r?

At the very least I can windiff them and see what has been done/still needs to be done if the versions are recombined. I can't promise a ton of work, but I can at least organize it and get together a development package.

#24 Miloch

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 07:22 AM

Miloch, can you please toss me Creepin's v5r?

I linked it back here. Chev is sending me Vault4BGT, which you probably have. I guess those are the two latest versions - Creepin's and erebusant's. I guess you could also get Clue's v5 on his website above to make sure they didn't miss anything (that shouldn't be missed).

Infinity Engine Contributions
Aurora * BG1 NPC * BG1 Fixpack * Haiass * Infinity Animations * Level 1 NPCs * P5Tweaks
PnP Free Action * Thrown Hammers * Unique Containers * BG:EE * BGII:EE * IWD:EE
================================================================
Player & Modder Resources
BAM Batcher * Creature Lister * Creature Checker * Creature Fixer * Tutu/BGT Area Map & List * Tutu Mod List
================================================================
"Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not 'that which has nothing beyond itself' that is infinite, but 'that which always has something beyond itself'." -Aristotle


#25 cmorgan

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 09:19 AM

cool - got it...

#26 -Guest_Topken-

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 04:02 PM

hmm so hows this panning out anyways sence this seems to be the latest infomation i have been able to find for getting the vault working well with BGT

#27 Ascension64

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 12:24 AM

Check http://www.shsforums...showtopic=34780 for the Vault.

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Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU and Mods
Throne of Bhaal Extender (TobEx)

Contributions: (NWN2) A Deathstalker (voice acting) - (IWD2) IWD2 NPC Project (soundset editing) - (Misc) SHS PC Soundsets (voice acting)
Legacy: (BG/Tutu/BGT) Beregost Crash Fixer 1.9 (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Enable conversations with charmed/dominated creatures (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Experience Corrections (18 Jul 10) - (Misc) Platform Conversion Utility RC2 (13 Feb 10)


#28 -Guest_Topken-

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 01:16 AM

hmm not sure why that didnt come up when i did a search for vault but glad to know it got done