18 replies to this topic

[Kulyok]

Will they be implemented? And, if yes, which way will it be -
1) NPC notices that PC does not always sleep well in one of the banters, the banter triggers independently of the dreams, Jaheira/Kelsey;
2) A more "psychic" way(the banter triggers immediately upon waking up from a dream, think Imoen/Ajantis from BG1 NPC Project)?

And, incidentally, where is v1? The FAQ states "The IEP will be released as it is done - so if one friendship is completed, it will be released and available for download, etc." - one friendship is about ten banters. Ten banters in five months - I'd say it's quite a while.

[berelinde]

Hmmm. Was that a friendly nudge I felt?

Individual contributors have been given a fair amount of leeway about the scope of their entries, but even the "smallest" contains somewhere around 50% more PC friendship talks than that, along with additional NPC-NPC content. Many of the contributors are also dividing time between the IEP, personal projects, family and friends, and jobs that actually pay the bills.

With that in mind, it looks like things are moving forward nicely.

[Kulyok]

Was that a friendly nudge I felt?

Me? Friendly?

I was thinking if I should let Aerie/Jae/Viccy comment on Sendai's dream, so I've been thinking whether I should consider IEP contributors' reaction. In the end, I'll probably decide against it: after all, the romantic interests shouldn't read PC's mind, should they? But, yes, I still wonder.

And, yes, I'd actually play it at least once, so I'd rather download it soon.

[Alatariel]

On the one hand more content is seldom a bad thing. On the other hand - would you really like that?

I mean I think it would be a little irritating if after a dream sequence all of the party members would shot a banter, one after another, on the PC basically only to say "OMG! Charname had a bad dream! What a misfortune!'. About the other way: having mentioned my 'bad dreams' in banters with all NPCs would do nothing to make my day better :|

Completely different dilemma we have with romance interests... Should they comment? In IEP that would be Anomen, Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia. I think that Anomen wouldn't notice/comment. Aerie probably would comment - if she noticed. Jaheira - I am nearly sure she would. Viconia.. That depends. She wouldn't let pc have the impression she cares about it, so she could *mention* it in one way or other...

About the Sendai thingie... That depends *what exactly* is implemented to that dream. If pc lying near Aerie would be moaning all night "Sendai.. Oh, Sendai, oh YES!" I think it might be a little hard to overlook...

Edited by Alatariel, 05 June 2007 - 12:22 AM.

[Kulyok]

Completely different dilemma we have with romance interests... Should they comment? In IEP that would be Anomen, Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia. I think that Anomen wouldn't notice/comment. Aerie probably would comment - if she noticed. Jaheira - I am nearly sure she would. Viconia.. That depends. She wouldn't let pc have the impression she cares about it, so she could *mention* it in one way or other...

Yes, they *might* notice you have nightmares, but it would be *extremely* perceptive of them to notice that you had THAT dream exactly the LAST night, which is my dilemma.

If pc lying near Aerie would be moaning all night "Sendai.. Oh, Sendai, oh YES!" I think it might be a little hard to overlook...

Different protagonists, different reactions. Me, I've yet to meet someone in real life who makes *these* sorts of noises while they sleep(and not feign sleep), so I am not entirely convinced such people exist, to be honest.

[Delight]

I think that such things should be on the player-initiated side.

[Alatariel]

Yes, they *might* notice you have nightmares, but it would be *extremely* perceptive of them to notice that you had THAT dream exactly the LAST night, which is my dilemma.

I understand. I answered the first part, about the IEP.
There is little you could implement here, however. There could be a short wake-up dialogue maybe, and even if your romantic interest would notice you could always say that you were dreaming about her anyways, as I too doubt that any charname would be actually that 'vocal' in his dream phantasies.

Different protagonists, different reactions. Me, I've yet to meet someone in real life who makes *these* sorts of noises while they sleep(and not feign sleep), so I am not entirely convinced such people exist, to be honest.

Some people do speak through sleep and I personally believe that *everything* is possible...

But I am no expert as to what people do in their sleep, and besides that was rather joke than serious suggestion...^^'
Eventually the pc might awaken bathed in sweat and/or with quickened breath, and so on, and then the banter may start... Assuming that at this point of the relationship PC and his 'girlfriend' are sleeping together/back to back. However it is your call.. And I believe that whatever you will actually do with the 'romantic encounters' they will be enjoyable:)

I think that such things should be on the player-initiated side.

Nice to hear a suggestion:) Although I won't implement it for sure, as Haer'Dalis is probably the last person pc would want to talk about it with, some of the other npc's are more suitable - Jaheira or even Keldorn, as he seems to be the 'fatherly' type - and perhaps their writer will use your suggestion.

As to the release date... Hm. Personally I think that K'aeloree's Viconia friendship will be the first one to be completed, although I can't say that for sure. I must also thank Berelinde in the name of all participating for her understanding - yes, that basically is the deal. As for myself I am sure that my part will be done till the end of June/July depending on how important it will feel (and how hard the Director will kick my lazy ass ) and how fast will I be able to settle down some urgent private matters (basically some stuff at University requiers my full attention).
And while you are mentioning the talk numbers... The HD part will basically consist 23 - although some of them are 'hidden' - and some extra content as well. That is, if I get my way doing this^^'.

Also I know that it will sound at least awkward, but I *think* that if people would be actually giving more feedback to this project some of the 'individual contributors' would have better motivation to do their work faster and share with the interested folks....

Edited by Alatariel, 05 June 2007 - 07:26 AM.

[Kulyok]

Also I know that it will sound at least awkward, but I *think* that if people would be actually giving more feedback to this project some of the 'individual contributors' would have better motivation to do their work faster and share with the interested folks....

Well, it is rather hard to give feedback on nothing. There're no previews, no complete list of contributors with samples of their banters, no information about the final editor(editors), and, most essentially, nothing is released. Also, it depends on which reaction feedback receives, and whether the infamous "if you do not like it, do not download it" will make an appearance. But, sure, if v1 was to be released, I'll post my own thoughts, at least.

[Alatariel]

Well, it is rather hard to give feedback on nothing. There're no previews, no complete list of contributors with samples of their banters, no information about the final editor(editors), and, most essentially, nothing is released.

I am sorry, but about that you have to speak with the coordinator^^... I am just a humble participant, know nothing of the Great Matters ^^'. But, seriously, I don't feel I have the authorization to discuss this. However I am quite sure that there won't be a problem with receiving constructive cricism^^' After all, people who are working at this mostly *know* what they are doing... And how to behave...^^' Or so we all would like to think, wouldn't we now?

[Demivrgvs]

I think that the majority of people is too lazy or busy to post their feedback and i'm one of them sometimes.
Post opinions requires attention and time but i'm sure there are many people who would enjoy this mod even if they will never write a single post. When a sort of first release will come out i'll surely post my thoughts.

Regarding this topic...i don't think it's a high priority making reactions to Charname's nightmares that NPCs may not even notice. But if such dialogs are supposed to be made than i'm more inclined to the suggestion of making them player-initiated and only with some appropriate NPCs (Jaheira, Keldorn and Cernd are the only one i can think of being believable in such a role).

Edited by Demivrgvs, 10 June 2007 - 03:29 PM.

[Mordokai]

Well, maybe Imoen would talk to you about them. That is, after she would stop making fun out of you for being such a scaredy cat

Oh, and if she would there in the first place, I presume

[Solar's Harper]

Well, maybe Imoen would talk to you about them. That is, after she would stop making fun out of you for being such a scaredy cat

Oh, and if she would there in the first place, I presume

How about after she revealed to also be a Child of Bhaal? By then she has lost her soul, had to endure countless insidous tortures, prehaps with very little time inbetween as Irenicus is very driven, and will stop at nothing, even in an unmodded game to get what he wants.

I think Imoen would only tease the PC a small bit, in an attempt to lighten the worry that would undoubtly be present in her, after all; she starts having much the same dreams even if they are only minor until late TOB, so anytime after Spellhold would make her more concerned, if not for her sibling then for herself as she has clearly expressed in the past, that she has no love for Bhaal, the Slayer or anything else that resembles murder and evil.

About the Sendai thingie... That depends *what exactly* is implemented to that dream. If pc lying near Aerie would be moaning all night "Sendai.. Oh, Sendai, oh YES!" I think it might be a little hard to overlook...

Eh? You mean Sendai the drow sister you have to kill!? Curse you Bhaal, why didn't you tell me??? seriously... how long has this, um... 'thingie' been around? I swear I must be either ignorant or senile, and I'm to young for the latter... I think.

[Kulyok]

I think Imoen would only tease the PC a small bit, in an attempt to lighten the worry that would undoubtly be present in her, after all; she starts having much the same dreams even if they are only minor until late TOB, so anytime after Spellhold would make her more concerned, if not for her sibling then for herself as she has clearly expressed in the past, that she has no love for Bhaal, the Slayer or anything else that resembles murder and evil.

*nod* I'd like to see Imoen's reaction to post-Spellhold PC dreamwhen Dream Imoen teaches PC to call forth the Slayer). I liked the nice touch in the gameduring the dream: the reply "You're not Imoen. She said she' had no dreams like those." was an excellent connection to their Spellhold banter. It seems logical to continue it and to talk to Imoen post-dream.

I appreciate player-initiated dialogue more, but introducing player-initiated dialogue to any Bio NPC automatically introduces lots and lots of trouble(it just takes one modder not attaching a WEIGHT on one banter to set the entire thing off), so Imoen-initiated is better, I guess. After 1500 seconds or so, Imoen just could say: "<CHARNAME>, I've been thinking. Have you seen more dreams about Bhaal?" - and it goes from there.

[cmorgan]

I have posted code templates to speed up the coding, so a quick copy/paste routine throws everything into the batch right away with minimal fuss and tweaking, but IO am afraid Valygar is not even at the researchj stage yet. Too many projects, too little time, and I need to see what is being done with Miera's and Domi's stuff on CR so we don't add banters that stink overlap content to a ferocious amount.

I am thinking of opening up a series of contests, though, to let the whole commnity contribute. If everyone tackled one banter, we could be done in a week...

[Kulyok]

I have posted code templates to speed up the coding, so a quick copy/paste routine throws everything into the batch right away with minimal fuss and tweaking, but IO am afraid Valygar is not even at the researchj stage yet. Too many projects, too little time, and I need to see what is being done with Miera's and Domi's stuff on CR so we don't add banters that stink overlap content to a ferocious amount.

You're sure you'd like to do that? Because Banter Pack deals with Valygar, TS/Corthala Romantique deals with Valygar, UB deals with Valygar, Xan deals with Valygar, RE might deal with Valygar... there's a long list.

I am thinking of opening up a series of contests, though, to let the whole commnity contribute. If everyone tackled one banter, we could be done in a week...

Yes, but the quality? I think "several writers doing one character"(or, rather "several writers add stuff as they please") works much worse than "one character->one (preferably decent) writer".
(I assume there's no "one editor who may edit everything the way he sees fit" scheme, so).

EDIT: And what two last posts do with "PC's dreams in SoA"? Rather, it is "Speed and taking other NPC mods into account".

Edited by Kulyok, 17 July 2007 - 08:09 AM.

[cmorgan]

My post is referencing

And, incidentally, where is v1? The FAQ states "The IEP will be released as it is done - so if one friendship is completed, it will be released and available for download, etc." - one friendship is about ten banters. Ten banters in five months - I'd say it's quite a while.

As far as content, I am of a different opinion on quality coming from individual authorship. I think that the game is enhanced by having multiple views of a character. In my perfect (dream) world, any character could have a wildly different interprestation - depending on the person playing it. It would be cool to have 4 different "interpretations" of any character to choose from, tailored to playstyle/choices - a Valygar who grows darker and distant in an evil party run by a magic-using NPC, or a gradually more familiar and cooperative Valygar if PC is a wizard slayer/Ranger combo who stays to the neutral path.

I think the best way of supporting players is with a "text adventure book" idea - the ones where you get to the end of the page, and the directions are:
"If you turn left, turn to page 346. If you turn right, turn to page 582. If you stop and look in your backpack, turn to page 231."

No one modder has a "right" canonical interpretation of an NPC, so I like the idea of letting folks who love the characters try a good banter write. The overall quality of writing is moot in my case, anyways - I (as you know, having had to edit and fix my work yourself ) tend to be overwordy and pandantic.

[Kulyok]

I think that the game is enhanced by having multiple views of a character.

I am sure that installing Imoen Romance mod, Imoen Relationship, IEP, Kelsey, Chloe and Banter Pack together has some fantastic hidden benefits, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out.

[Solar's Harper]

It may, but upon last check, the Chloe and Imoen Romance mods were incompatible with each other, because they override each other in dialog and so on.
Did this change by any chance?

[cmorgan]

I think Kulyok is poking me all in good fun!

I think her point is that having multiple mods with different points of view of the character all operational at one time has no real benefit to characterization.

Chloe and Imoen Romance do not play well together currently; PM either of us for personal observations on that list if you really want (but not in an open forum, please) - I think Kulyok and I share certain reservations on content of some of those.

As to your point, Kulyok - I agree that having multiple full-mod interpretations running at the same time does not sound like a player advantage. I agree. I think that in the case of a full mod approach, it is a bad idea to put conflicting variations.

Now, one install with one characterization, then the next time installing a different mod interpretation - that is good.

What I am saying here about the banters is that having multiple points of view opens up characterization possibilities that one author cannot come up with alone.

Example - a banter discussion of Imoen. You want to support multiple player interpretations of Valygar's reactions.
So, you call for all the ideas you can, and then script them in:

set variables if PC is evil, good, or neutral, and react to them - set player responses down different paths; and based class/etc. set Valgayar to have a different character than in other situations. People are not usually the same person in different settings. Being with friends who make you conmfortable emphasizeds one set of values/attributes for a person. Being under the thumb of a horrible boss whom you hate and disagree with brings a whole new side of a persn into play. Same concept here. Valygar talking to an evil dude who is busy committing hanky-panky with his god-sister will have a very different reaction or set of ideas to one who is talking to a LG fighter/cleric who he is interested in romancing. I could write some stuff for #2, but could never get #1 correct - that is why hopefully someone who can "grok" #1 could come along and write that pathway.


but I agree - no need to install different whole-character concept mods on the same install. Tailoring the installation is better. BanterPacks, though, I think, have to account for as many possible interpretations, as they will be installed on both an Imoen Romance install and Saerileth install, and ideally they should make sense to both player approaches equally. This leads to huge dialogue trees for small banters, but really adds (I think) to replayability.

Edited by cmorgan, 28 July 2007 - 09:01 AM.