42 replies to this topic

[Tassadar88]

@Zyraen
Well, that´s ok then, I suppose :-)

What do you think about getting some of the Bhaalspawn/people out of Saradush via pocket plane? It always frustrated me that I could not take other people but my party inside, and it would surely get on smelly Melly´s nerves to see her cattle get away somewhere she can´t slaughter them at leisure

[Kwiat_W]

I personally don't like this idea. I thing there should be restrictions on who you can take to the pocket plane. Corresponding to the fate spirit your party members are "linked" to you in some way, Saradush citizens aren't. If we would agree that Charname can take there anybody, then way should he limit himself to only saving Saradush? Why not abduct there members of the five and starve them to death, or let them kill one another? Or maybe at least take there tethyrian army and use it later in a suprise attack?

[Tassadar88]

@Kwiat W

Well, for first, the fate spirit says that IT can take people linked with you, not about whom YOU can take... and as for the other argument, you could always say that the person being taken in has to agree to being taken there... and also, personally I believe that if you can take five people in (at a time), you CAN take anyone you like. For one, people can be there without you being present (take leaving party members inside).
Starving people to death does not make sense in BG terms either - (and they could always try and cook Cespenar...)

Edited by Tassadar88, 08 May 2008 - 06:46 AM.

[Abigail]

@Zyraen, I'd SO like to play that!

Besides, I agree that a possibility of returning to Athkatla to do some side quests, take care of your stronghold etc. would be great.

[Zyraen]

@Erephine
"I actually think what ToB lacks most is non-plot related areas and quests. Allow the player to travel to a few SoA locations again, have side quests, etc."
I'd have to agree to that, totally, and I'd have to say that such mods do exist. I do know of at least one in development atm, and there's Return to Windspear and many other Mods that aim to add more access to SoA areas. To try to keep the scope limited, I would be tempted to focus mainly on the pimary plot of ToB, making it less railroaded.

Generally, on Saving Saradush, I think its a great idea. Not through Pocketplane (imagine the sheer amount of coding...!!!) but just some of the inhabitants ; perhaps Captain watsisname, Ardic, Countess Santele (or sth), just to make you feel better.

That being said, I'd probably place that low on my list of priority. I'd rather do up a nice main plot for ToB first, and it'll be icing on the cake at best. I wouldn't want to change the cake though, by getting rid of the destruction of Saradush. It'd mean too much Mod incompatibility and that's not worth half the trouble I feel.

[Zyraen]

@Abigail
Certainly That's a Brilliant Idea! That bit ALWAYS bugged me so...

I'll provide a link from Pocketplane to your Stronghold... and alter some files to have your updates show up in ToB (like "Gold has been placed in your Keep" or "Your thieves have returned from their missions)

Edit : Updated Main Topic with Latest Ideas and Concepts.

Edited by Zyraen, 08 May 2008 - 09:15 AM.

[Erephine]

Would it be that hard to just code some areas to work?

You don't need to do a lot to them, I'd think, maybe change a few lines of dialogue for the townspeople etc. and remove SoA related things where you don't add anything? I'm asking because I kind of dislike the whole summoning deal with the pocket plane. If you could travel back and pick people up there, it wouldn't seem so.... cheap-plot-device-like(?) Maybe you could even sort of make this a quest (seen as you don't know where everyone is or if they even WANT to join with you again)..

[Daulmakan]

Besides, I agree that a possibility of returning to Athkatla to do some side quests, take care of your stronghold etc. would be great.

Razfallow's Teleport Mod provides that possibility.

[theacefes]

I believe much of the problem with ToB is that it's FULL of cheap plot devices and conveniences.

[jcompton]

I believe much of the problem with ToB is that it's FULL of cheap plot devices and conveniences.

Yes. Which isn't without some charm--it's kind of a frenetic bloodbath-laced race to the finish line and the payoff of the Bhaalspawn story. But Shadows Of Amn, it is not.

The earthy phrase "polishing a turd" cannot help but come to mind every time one of these "Let's fix everything that's wong with TOB!" subjects has come up over the past seven years.

You have to ask yourself if it's really worthy of this much effort.

Edited by jcompton, 08 May 2008 - 09:59 AM.

[theacefes]

I don't believe a total conversion can just "fix" ToB. But adding a few changes here and there throughout the expansion, not so much a massive mod, could help it out a little, while at the same time keeping compatibility with several ToB mods out there and not breaking the Bioware romances. It's not worth it to try and get rid of the hack n slash, but adding a little more story behind the hack n slash would certainly make it more enjoyable, to me anyway.

Not that I've been thinking about this. It's not like I've been SEECKRETLY working on my own mod for this or anything for a while. Not at all.

[Icendoan]

Of course not.

Icen

[theacefes]

Not even a tiny bit.

[Zyraen]

Just had a thought. I just realised what I was doing was not so much adding non-plot critical areas, but making quite a few originally plot-critical areas non-plot-critical.

Off the side note, have someone writing for Illasera & Elhan already, and I have myself almost finished writing negotiations with Yaga-Shura. Have already done up negotiations with Phlydian the vampire, and spotting the link to make Melissan talk about Yaga-Shura on the first time you enter Saradush, so that you can go straight to the Temples from there.

[Zyraen]

Some lines for preview Gromnir negotiations also completed!

Phyldian the Vampire lines

~Ah... I sense sweet opportunity. Which brother or sister of yours would you wish consumed in my fangs?~

~Bring the one you desire killed into the streets of Saradush at night, and then I will be able to strike.~

~I depart now with my children. Return here when the time draws near for your need of my fangs. I will be waiting eagerly.~

============

Yaga-Shura lines

~You think you can surprise Yaga-Shura by sneaking in quietly? What a disappointment you are, worm, I had thought you more worthy an opponent.~

~Worm, think you can speak so to Yaga-Shura without suffering for it? HA-ha ha haaaa! Yaga-Shura will put an end to your foolish talk.~

~I see. A Bhaalspawn, and a strong one too. Yaga-Shura will be pleased to crush him.~
= ~Yet he is hidden, like a coward, inside the walls of Saradush. Open the gates of the city, and Yaga-Shura will do the rest.~

============

Gromnir Lines

~HAH ha ha! <CHARNAME> think Gromnir fool! But no, we is no idiot!~
= ~Gromnir knows that <CHARNAME> is tricky; <CHARNAME> lies; <CHARNAME> deceives.~

~Trapped mm? Yes, Gromnir knows, we is no idiot! Lying Melissan, scheming Melissan! Now Gromnir trapped in Saradush, waiting... to DIE!~
= ~But no, Gromnir not going easily, no. We is taking <CHARNAME> down first!~

~Oh yes, Gromnir is seeing, yes. We sees <CHARNAME> get chopped bits, we glad! No more Melissan assassin be killing Gromnir, no more.~
= ~But Gromnir also want see Yaga-Shura get chopped bits! See <CHARNAME> no lie, then we meet Yaga-Shura us selves! HAH! Good fun!~

[Zyraen]

Putting aside Imix / Bremm / Nyalee intrigues for now in favour of Chinchilla's shortcut to Level 2 of the Fire Temple.
Imix / Bremm / Nyalee will still get done sometime after the whole Enhancing ToB framework is complete, OR if there is a heated response for them (as if there will be...)

On the positive note, Chinchilla's dialogue is now fully written, for zipping you into Bremm's portion of the Temple... literally.

[Tassadar88]

Oooh! Do I count if I write a heated response?

I liked what I saw veery much, especially Gromnir - he deserves it :-)

I was wondering about this line though

~Ah... I sense sweet opportunity. Which brother or sister of yours would you wish consumed in my fangs?~

It almost seems like Phlydian sees it as an easy task, yet in the original encounter, the vampires are very wary of the Bhaalspawn, saying how you for example could crush them all, no?

Also, it looks a bit awkwardly phrased - brother or sister could easily be replaced by sibling, and the phrase "consumed in my fangs" seems odd to me too (maybe either "by my fangs" or leave the "in my fangs" at all)

[Tassadar88]

As for the Nyalee intrigue, it can wait for the other things, as far as I am concerned

[Sebastian]

Adding to the Melissan thing, I also think there should be some way to make her "give up" as in, turn her to the light side again, lol.

The Solar that is babysitting you only comes when she feels like it. But what if you could somehow, when you first meet, if you have a good alignment and high wisdom you could come to a deal with her to be able to summon her yourself once only? Assuming,the PC isn't a total newb, he should be able to somehow realize that Melissan isn't what she seems and summon the Solar to make some things clear and ask whether or not he can help Melissan.

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but nobody is born evil unless they have a genetic condition(supergenious criminals). And if you, who has had the greatest part of the essence can be lawful good, why couldn't she?
And if Sarevok and Irenicus can be redeemed, why not her? I have no plan yet a to what would come out of this, and it should happen at the very end so as to not destroy the whole plot.

I personally hated Melissan, but not as a person, as a Character. She was too.............flat. A character is only deep when it has both good and bad sides. I know she was a priestess of Bhaal and they're supposed to be evil. But look at Nyalee, she honestly loved Yaga Shura, although he was 50 times her size lol. I hated that you had no choice but to kill her.

And Imix should just die. One less bother for his Fire Elemental Prince rivals lol. There could be a planar travel when another Elemental Prince asks you to kill Imix for him(Lol, I know I'm sounding crazy again hehe). To justify this, you could somehow use the elemental scepters in the Demon level of Watcher's keep to have the portal create a doorway to another plane instead of the next level of the dungeon where you meet Dun'Kel, another elemental rpince that is supposedly either bent on killing Imix or Supposed to do it. He may be forbidden from traveling to Toril but would be willing to hire you to do it. In exchange he could give you an item that would capture Imix's essence once he dies and that would be a new Ioun stone, +50% fire resistance lol. It would be justified because the mages on that level had been crazy and the Fire obsessed guy may have come into contact with another plane in order to gain the advantage. Yeah, another crazy idea but meh

And I also felt the bhaalspawn dorkade(The bhaalspawn party in the Fire Giant Mountains that you kill(Chinchilla the rabbit and the xvart and whatever else they were) should have been more expanded upon. Like, WTF Bhaal had unprotected sexual intercourse with a female specimen of the Rabbit Species? I'd really like to see Imoen's reaction to that Maybe they could be the ones to infiltrate Saradush with you and strike at Yaga Shura-s forces from behind, thus making your life easier when you finally face him. And Chinchilla has a hell of a running speed lol. Best escape artist you could ever dream of

And concerning Winning Abazigal to your side: You could have the option to transform into the slayer and impress him. I imagine that form should give out an incredible amount of killing intent. I mean Bodhi was scared Sh*tless lol(Although she was evasive after that hehe).And I know there's a mod that upgrades your transformation too(The normal Slayer? Yeah right...It's incredibly weak , 100 hit points? lol)

Another thought... The jumper. The teleporting Bhaalspawn. If it were possible to cast a sort of tracking spell or link spell to him one could actually discover the secret to his ability(And somehow gain it). Yesh, that would probably be too much, but I'm just throwing that out there.

And maybe one could at least save Volo for future reference.

Well, that's all for now

//Sebastian