21 replies to this topic

[cyruscloud]

Not sure if it is ok to make a topic like this, if not please forgive me.

I'm thinking of giving Baldur's gate a go, I've played NWN, NWN2, and most recently ES Oblvion, thought I might go retro a bit and see what these games that preceded NWN that I hear so much about are like.

Question is I am trying to decide how I want to play as a first experience, I know the idea of using the BG2 engine to play BG1 is appealing, so that leaves me with decision to use Tutu I've read about to play BG1 then play BG2 seperatly or go with the trilogy mod I've read about and make it all into one big game.  Also should I use an addon quest mods to the mix, so any help appreciated.  I've not played either of these games before, but I don't mind using mods first go around really if people fill like they added to or made the original experience better and even more memorable. So suggestions? Also roughly how long a game is it if you play it all combined with the trilogy mod, estimated for a person who likes to explore everthing and is a deep player and first time player?

[Lysan Lurraxol]

For BG1 I would strongly advise you to go with Tutu and install the BG1 NPC Project from http://www.gibberlings3.net/downloads/ (you'll have to scroll down a little to find it). BG1 isn't really worth playing without it, as it adds a huge amount of content and depth to the various joinable NPCs.

I would recommend playing BG2 as it is, although mods you may want to look into are the Xan BG2 Mod http://www.pocketpla...p...&Itemid=113

Edwin Romance http://www.shsforums...m...&showcat=20

Kivan and Deheriana BG2 mod http://www.gibberlings3.net/downloads/

and the banter pack http://www.pocketpla...p...5&Itemid=78

and IEP banters http://www.shsforums...mp;showfile=558 (install this first)

[Amaurea]

For the first time, I'd agree with Lyssan and definitely go with Easy Tutu and BGINPC for your BG1 experience. There are other nifty mods for Easy Tutu, but I think a first play-through should be as mod-free as possible to familiarize yourself with the game.

For BG2, I'd go with the BG2 Fixpack, and that's pretty much it. Once you get a feel for the game, you'll have a better idea of what you're looking for in mods.

[Vicen]

I would also suggest a fighter type class for you as well if you are very new as fighters have the most hp and usually the best armor out of all other classes (Fighter - Barbarian - Paladin - Ranger) If you go the TuTu route which of course you should be careful which kit you pick as some of them are not the greatest at lvl 1 such as Kensai as you cannot wear any armor which is quite a drag for bg1 at least early game!

But if you are confident that you dont need to be a fighter type or simply dont want to be by all means go something else...!

[cyruscloud]

Thanks for the suggestions

I've played the NWN series games so I'm pretty familiar with the play style and classes, I'm likely going to go the paladin route as it's the one I'm most familiar with.

[Vicen]

Ah good choice my first ever char for the BG series my self was a Paladin...Word of caution though not sure if you allready know this but if your rep dips too low you can become a fallen paladin which is really just a gimped fighter so be careful to always keep your rep at least 8 or above I forget the actual number that causes you to become a fallen one but for safety's sake 8 or above you must be!

[Klorox]

I'm going to go against the norm here and suggest for a first timer to NOT use Tutu. The game definitely has a different feel without it, and you'd play BG the way it was originally intended.

A lot of the kits available in Tutu make the game very unbalanced.

And play a warrior, or multi-classed warrior type the first time.

[SConrad]

Moved to IE Modding Discussion.

[Choo Choo]

I agree with Klorox. If you play BG for the first time, do it without BGT or Tutu or mods. You should never play a game with mods the first time.

[Azazello]

If you play BG for the first time, do it without BGT or Tutu or mods. You should never play a game with mods the first time.

Agreed.

[Miloch]

I'm going to go against the norm here and suggest for a first timer to NOT use Tutu. The game definitely has a different feel without it, and you'd play BG the way it was originally intended.

I'd have to disagree with this. BG1 can be almost unplayable on modern machines (maybe the Widescreen mod helps remedy this; dunno, haven't tried it). LadeJarl's TutuGUI and other graphical mods restore the 'look and feel' of BG1 quite well.

A lot of the kits available in Tutu make the game very unbalanced.

This might well be the case (especially for Shapeshifters), but no one said you have to choose a kit.

[Lysan Lurraxol]

I'd have to disagree as well. Without BG1NPC, BG1 is incredibly dull, frankly the main quest isn't great, and I think it's better to experience BG1 for the first time with talking, bantering real companions by your side, which BG1NPC includes. There are mods for Tutu like the original GUI and sounds that create the experience of BG1 without any of the infuriating problems and limitations of the original. BG1 isn't a good enough game to play without mods for the first time, unlike BG2 which is perfect as it is.

[Icendoan]

IMHO, the main quest for BG1 was far better than that for BG2 or ToB.

Icen

[Lysan Lurraxol]

Yeah, but TBH I never found the plotlines for BG2 great either. the reason I play BG2 is for the developed characters and their interactions. The story is a little cliched and silly.

[Vicen]

Indeed if this was 2003 by all means play the game by the norm but its 2008 and there are great mods out like tutu and bg1npc that just HAVE to be played or really its not worth it for BG1

[cyruscloud]

Hehe, this is getting kind of good, seems I've started a good topic, mods or no mods on first play.

First things first, playing a game first time without mods might hold true usually, as it is great to play a game as it was meant to be but I wouldn't call it a must. One exception I remember was a game called Grand Prix Legends, made in 1998, graphic power though was way dated much like this game, we are talking about when VGA and SVGA graphics were still gaming terms. This game while great underneath, was appauling to look at, so noone plays that game without mods, a mod made it use DX7, poof then it had shading and depth to it's 3d graphics, texture update to tracks, wow no single matte colors for grass, add to that updated visual for cars and the game suddenly looked as good as 2004 games, and I still wouldn't ever recommend anyone play it without those mods at least. Just for the pure purpose of compatibility for newer machines as well as those mods just made the original better.

So situation now, is Tutu really hurting BG1? I'm not typically a cheating type player, if there is an obvious exploit that would basically ruin the game, I'm not going to use it for just that reason. On other hand I definatly would like graphics to be as good as I can get them I don't mind playing an old game but even then if graphics can be improved why not do it, and if there were bugs in the BG1 that may of turned people away or hampered its enjoyment I would definatly want them fixed. It's like most recent game I was playing, Oblivion, I played the game a bit stock to get a feel for it but my first playthrough I used a mod to stop the NPC equipment leveling because I knew going in that if 100 hours into the game every bandit had glass armor and weapons or better that I wouldn't like that. I think more so that other games RPG's have to be researched as far as modding goes before hand because they are long games and you don't want to find yourself wishing you were using a certain mod to improve something 50 hours in that you can't use till your next play.

Not sure how much I'm making sense here. However guess no one can force me to play any specific way so it is still my choice and I thank you for your suggestions and links to things. I will likely be playing Tutu, with the BG1NPC and the old Gui for it, and will just leave BG2 with the fixpack probably. BG1 I likely won't use a kit, NWN didn't really have things like this but reading about them, not sure if I wouldn't really like many of them as the bonuses have sacrifices so playing a customized normal class character without a kit sounds more my style.

[Sir_Carnifex]

So situation now, is Tutu really hurting BG1? I'm not typically a cheating type player, if there is an obvious exploit that would basically ruin the game, I'm not going to use it for just that reason. On other hand I definatly would like graphics to be as good as I can get them I don't mind playing an old game but even then if graphics can be improved why not do it, and if there were bugs in the BG1 that may of turned people away or hampered its enjoyment I would definatly want them fixed.

Off the top of my head, I recall three things that make Tutu easier than the unmodded BG1. There are probably more though.

Here they are:

1. Walking speed in BG2 is faster, so when that is transferred to BG1, it allows you to outrun (or at least keep pace) with wolves. There is a component that allows you to restore the original walking speeds -- so this isn't a problem as long as you remember to install it.

2. You will also have access to a lot of spells that weren't originally in BG1. These would be a tad harder to avoid using, but you could if you look through the BG1 manual to check if a spell is there or not. I wouldn't have the patience to do that.

3. Thieves gain the Set Traps and Detect Illusion abilities. Again, this is something you could just choose not to use if you want the original BG1 feel.

Verdict? I say go with Tutu. You can still play it like the original game if you so wish and have the better graphics to boot.

[Miloch]

Yeah, I think it's a fair-trade off as far as "balance" - there are some things in Tutu that make it harder than BG1 (spawns for example, though there is a mod to adjust that too at the same place as EasyTutu).

The slow walking speeds in BG1 almost made me lose patience with it until I discovered Tutu and other mods. Also I agree the storyline is better, as is the area distribution (more wilderness areas) and the beginning sequence isn't nearly as annoying as BG2's.

[Azazello]

In all fairness, the OP isn't truly a first-time BG player, having already played other BG-esque games. If we were talking a real BG Virgin, Choo Choo and I would own this thread.

Level 1 - Virgin: BG1 with only the official patches
Level 2 - Newbie: BG1 / official patches / some mods
Level 3 - Tweenie {hobbit reference, not derogatory present-day slang}: Tutu / some mods
Level 4 - Smarty: : BGT / some mods

[cyruscloud]

Funny thing is, after all that discussion, my system decided it for me. Turns out I'm using one of the nvidia 8000 series cards where apparantly there is an issue causing graphic corription like black boxes appearing around things in place of the transparency. The only way I could fix this running BG1 itself was to either turn on the software renderings and use 16bit but this caused performance lag bigtime, or to turn down my system's hardware acceleration. Which really isn't an option since I am a professional developer so turning hardware acceleration up and down all the time really isn't a good option. So easytutu and BG2 it is as there are no graphic issues using it, well other than the green water and forgetting to install the degreenifier before installing BG1NPC.

Also having to get use to the way AC works in this game, in NWN higher Armor class the better, this, lower is better which really caught me off for a bit.