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[Release] BGSpawn version 1.11


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#61 -Aranthys-

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 09:12 AM

Few problems I have with this mod :
1) Some of the spawns are a bit too hard (I'm mostly thinking about the Gnoll fortress here, going there with 3 level 4 characters was a pain in the @ss)
2) Some of the gnolls drop level 5-7 mage scrolls, this can be quite imbalancing in BG1.
Either for money purpose, or for fighting purpose.

About the fact that spawned ennemies don't disappear, I'm not really sure it's the best way to implement it.
If they were there 2 days ago, they probably left by the time you come back.
It doesn't feel really realist for them to still be there.

Another problem : You can spawn Zombie Lords in some places. Those always drop the +2 armor "Skin of the Ghoul +4 (LEAT13)"

Isn't it possible for you to alter the items found on hte ennemies so that they become the right items for a BG1 game ? (Lvl 3 / 4 / 5 scrolls, +1 weapons, +2 for very dangerous foes - same for armors).

I really liked what you did with the Firewine bridge, but I think with BGSpawn, that ennemies are respawning a little bit too fast. Can't you increase the respawn time to 12 hours ?

#62 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:12 PM

Few problems I have with this mod :
1) Some of the spawns are a bit too hard (I'm mostly thinking about the Gnoll fortress here, going there with 3 level 4 characters was a pain in the @ss)
2) Some of the gnolls drop level 5-7 mage scrolls, this can be quite imbalancing in BG1.
Either for money purpose, or for fighting purpose.

About the fact that spawned ennemies don't disappear, I'm not really sure it's the best way to implement it.
If they were there 2 days ago, they probably left by the time you come back.
It doesn't feel really realist for them to still be there.

Another problem : You can spawn Zombie Lords in some places. Those always drop the +2 armor "Skin of the Ghoul +4 (LEAT13)"

Isn't it possible for you to alter the items found on hte ennemies so that they become the right items for a BG1 game ? (Lvl 3 / 4 / 5 scrolls, +1 weapons, +2 for very dangerous foes - same for armors).

I really liked what you did with the Firewine bridge, but I think with BGSpawn, that ennemies are respawning a little bit too fast. Can't you increase the respawn time to 12 hours ?


Thanks for your feedbacks guest!

I know that the fortress is now quite challenging ... it was intended, but i can think of toning it a bit down. About the scrolls, it depends on random treasures, i cannot do nothing here (anyway my opinion is that it balances aventually the fact that SCS mages casts high lev spells).

About Zombie Lord i could change the cre (will use a new one) file and the assigned skin of the ghoul, it makes sense. On fixlist now.

About "spawn time"... it's something that i can change, absolutely. I just would like to know community's opinion about it, you're not the first to point that out.
What do u people think about it?

Eventually, i'll work on an input-by-user method during the installation,

mm75

Edited by melkor_morgoth75, 04 June 2009 - 11:13 PM.

Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#63 -Aranthys-

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 02:14 AM

Thanks for your feedbacks guest!

You're welcome, just trying to help you improve a mod that i like :cheers:

I know that the fortress is now quite challenging ... it was intended, but i can think of toning it a bit down. About the scrolls, it depends on random treasures, i cannot do nothing here (anyway my opinion is that it balances aventually the fact that SCS mages casts high lev spells).

Problem is, for a level 4 party with 3 character, every spawn I had to fight about 7 gnolls.
There's about 8-9 spawns to get to Dynaheir. That's 50 gnolls to kill, with some captains that have low TACO / low AC.
For a place that should be about as hard as the Nashkell Mines, it feels a bit too much.

About scrolls : Each scroll sells for about 1000-1500 gp. Doing the Gnoll fortress gave me about 10,000 gps.
Not really intended I would say.
There's no mage in SCS that is above level 12-13, meaning they can't cast spells over level 6.
Having access to level + summon spells could make some battles really easy.
Best way to make money with a level 8-9 party is to go to the gnoll fortress and harvest scrolls with your mod. :blink:
Same problem could arise with the kobold scribe, since you get 6 level 6 scrolls from killing him.
It's not a problem as big as scrolls from gnolls, since scribes are not as common as gnolls.

Another problem : At level 3-4 with a 1 person party, you can encounter Hobgoblin chiefs (or captains.. not sure of their name, especially since I'm playing with a french game).
These are really tough at this level, due to their low AC (Something like 0 or -1 AC ? not sure)
With a Thief PC, i had to resort to Hide in shadows > Backstab > Run > Hide in shadow [...], and even with a TACO of 13 while hidden, i had trouble hitting them.

#64 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 03:01 AM

Problem is, for a level 4 party with 3 character, every spawn I had to fight about 7 gnolls.
There's about 8-9 spawns to get to Dynaheir. That's 50 gnolls to kill, with some captains that have low TACO / low AC.
For a place that should be about as hard as the Nashkell Mines, it feels a bit too much.


Well, as i said i could think of reduce the numbers ... as for now, it is a Gnoll fortress so i expect such number of dogs :) I had a very challenge in my game too, but i really enjoyed it, anyway ... let's see if it's the case to change something.

About scrolls : Each scroll sells for about 1000-1500 gp. Doing the Gnoll fortress gave me about 10,000 gps.
Not really intended I would say.
There's no mage in SCS that is above level 12-13, meaning they can't cast spells over level 6.
Having access to level + summon spells could make some battles really easy.
Best way to make money with a level 8-9 party is to go to the gnoll fortress and harvest scrolls with your mod. :blink:
Same problem could arise with the kobold scribe, since you get 6 level 6 scrolls from killing him.
It's not a problem as big as scrolls from gnolls, since scribes are not as common as gnolls.


I really can't do anything for the treasure unfortunately. Anyway ... u can always leave the scrolls where they are if u don't want to have so much money (or u could install Storeprice mod :whistling: ) Anyway Gnolls are common only in this very area, and as u pointed out, to have eventually those possible scrolls ... u have to fight a lot! :)

Another problem : At level 3-4 with a 1 person party, you can encounter Hobgoblin chiefs (or captains.. not sure of their name, especially since I'm playing with a french game).
These are really tough at this level, due to their low AC (Something like 0 or -1 AC ? not sure)
With a Thief PC, i had to resort to Hide in shadows > Backstab > Run > Hide in shadow [...], and even with a TACO of 13 while hidden, i had trouble hitting them.


Hmmm ... u can face a Hobgoblin captain at 4 and 5 levels with a solo-party. He is quite strong yes, i can think of removing them and put only 6+ levels.

Thanks again for your feedbacks!
mm75
Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#65 -Aranthys-

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 06:14 AM

I'll keep playing so that I can tell you if there's anything else that's worth mentionning.
Some other ennemies that could be nice to use in your mod :
- Goblins
- Mephits
- New bandits ( Mage with a flesh golem + thieves at high level for example)
- Dopplegangers
- Ooze
- An army of Ghasts, Ghouls, Zombies, Skelettons led by a level 10 + necromancer ( ^_^ )

I would prefer to have fewer fights, but for these to be more intense, than to have the plethora of fights you can while get wandering in BG1 that don't really prove to be dangerous.
I believe it's a probability, that is based on group size and level.
Can you add a few "special encounters" at a low probability ? like 5% chance to encounter the Necromancer & his army of undead minions for a high level party.

#66 Miloch

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 03:29 PM

I really can't do anything for the treasure unfortunately.

Why not? You can either change the CREs, the rndtre*.itm they have, or change rndtreas.2da itself. Doesn't really make sense for gnolls and the like to have scrolls anyway - I doubt they're even literate. Maybe gnoll shamans if there are any (which would be rare) but even then they'd only have a low-level scroll and use it in combat if they could. Also, if you are introducing more spawns, you probably want to nerf the treasure downward anyway - at least provide an optional component for it.

(@Aranthys: you are saying gnolls are too tough but not a L10 necromancer with all his spells and an undead army? :blink:)

Infinity Engine Contributions
Aurora * BG1 NPC * BG1 Fixpack * Haiass * Infinity Animations * Level 1 NPCs * P5Tweaks
PnP Free Action * Thrown Hammers * Unique Containers * BG:EE * BGII:EE * IWD:EE
================================================================
Player & Modder Resources
BAM Batcher * Creature Lister * Creature Checker * Creature Fixer * Tutu/BGT Area Map & List * Tutu Mod List
================================================================
"Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not 'that which has nothing beyond itself' that is infinite, but 'that which always has something beyond itself'." -Aristotle


#67 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 03:44 PM

I really can't do anything for the treasure unfortunately.

Why not? You can either change the CREs, the rndtre*.itm they have, or change rndtreas.2da itself. Doesn't really make sense for gnolls and the like to have scrolls anyway - I doubt they're even literate. Maybe gnoll shamans if there are any (which would be rare) but even then they'd only have a low-level scroll and use it in combat if they could. Also, if you are introducing more spawns, you probably want to nerf the treasure downward anyway - at least provide an optional component for it.


You're right, but as for now i'm not willing to change the treasure-system in game. It would be quite a new mod and i would have to take care of ANY treasure to do a nice work (orcs have the same issue for example). Anyway u have a point when u say that introcuding more creatures could bring to more treasures as well, and so it makes sense to nerf the whole treasure system.

The problem is always the same, time. To do a nice work here really, i would like to do a completely different component (another mod?) ... as for now i just don't have time to afford that :( That's why i said i cannot do anything for the treasure system because it depends on BG2 game.

I'll put in the to-do list anyway ;)

mm75
Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#68 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 03:52 PM

I'll keep playing so that I can tell you if there's anything else that's worth mentionning.
Some other ennemies that could be nice to use in your mod :
- Goblins
- Mephits
- New bandits ( Mage with a flesh golem + thieves at high level for example)
- Dopplegangers
- Ooze
- An army of Ghasts, Ghouls, Zombies, Skelettons led by a level 10 + necromancer ( ^_^ )

I would prefer to have fewer fights, but for these to be more intense, than to have the plethora of fights you can while get wandering in BG1 that don't really prove to be dangerous.
I believe it's a probability, that is based on group size and level.
Can you add a few "special encounters" at a low probability ? like 5% chance to encounter the Necromancer & his army of undead minions for a high level party.


Goblins are used in the system ;) Other creatures are quite difficult to implement basing on the story and areas.
About fewer fights ... the mod relies on vanilla spawn points, so u see the same number of possible spawn points in the areas. But now u have the chance to spawn "nothing" or neutral creatures at least.

One of the things that i'd like to do is something similar to your necromancer+undead party. I'd like to implement (just 5% chance in some areas) some encounters that could lead u to new quests. That really would be cool to keep the game longeve and different in any new game. The problem is always time ... but never say never ;) As ... i'd like to create a mod for the encounters u face in between the areas ... :whistling:

mm75
Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#69 Miloch

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 04:16 PM

Goblins are used in the system

I see kobolds and hobgoblins but not goblins - what CREs do you use for them? I have imported and stacked the IWD animations so goblin shamans and chiefs should be possible if you want to use the code and CREs (as mentioned here - stacking may no longer be necessary if that project ever takes off but it doesn't appear to be doing so any time soon).

it makes sense to nerf the whole treasure system.

This wouldn't be too tough then, because you'd just need to COPY_EXISTING ~rndtreas.2da~ ~override~ (and maybe the other rnd*.2da tables) and then either REPLACE_TEXTUALLY or SET_2DA_ENTRY replacing the overpowered entries with new items. The code would be easy - it'd just be a matter of deciding what is too powerful and what to replace them with. Also, I think the problem may be BGT which added new rows to these tables, because Tutu and BG2 just have the default rows and most of the treasure is not that powerful. Of course, you want the treasure to get better later in the game, so maybe some CREs would have to be patched too, but that wouldn't be too hard either.

Infinity Engine Contributions
Aurora * BG1 NPC * BG1 Fixpack * Haiass * Infinity Animations * Level 1 NPCs * P5Tweaks
PnP Free Action * Thrown Hammers * Unique Containers * BG:EE * BGII:EE * IWD:EE
================================================================
Player & Modder Resources
BAM Batcher * Creature Lister * Creature Checker * Creature Fixer * Tutu/BGT Area Map & List * Tutu Mod List
================================================================
"Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not 'that which has nothing beyond itself' that is infinite, but 'that which always has something beyond itself'." -Aristotle


#70 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 12:07 AM

I see kobolds and hobgoblins but not goblins - what CREs do you use for them? I have imported and stacked the IWD animations so goblin shamans and chiefs should be possible if you want to use the code and CREs (as mentioned here - stacking may no longer be necessary if that project ever takes off but it doesn't appear to be doing so any time soon).


ICGOB03, ELEHOB01, ICGOB04. U can face them at low levels in a couple of areas. It would be really cool to implement those goblins, but i guess using them is beyond my actual modding skills.


This wouldn't be too tough then, because you'd just need to COPY_EXISTING ~rndtreas.2da~ ~override~ (and maybe the other rnd*.2da tables) and then either REPLACE_TEXTUALLY or SET_2DA_ENTRY replacing the overpowered entries with new items. The code would be easy - it'd just be a matter of deciding what is too powerful and what to replace them with. Also, I think the problem may be BGT which added new rows to these tables, because Tutu and BG2 just have the default rows and most of the treasure is not that powerful. Of course, you want the treasure to get better later in the game, so maybe some CREs would have to be patched too, but that wouldn't be too hard either.


I can have a look at it, thanks Miloch. Still, time and my modding skills are not so good so it would take really long time to do a very nice work here.

Anyway, really, THANKS A LOT for your help, MUCH appreciated, i hope i can grab some time to look at what u suggested, it would improve a lot the mod.

mm75
Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#71 Fouinto

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 11:07 AM

Hi,

I want to try to harden the game but I wonder if this will be too hard for me (I want to install SCS a the same time). If I can sleep safely outdoor, I think I will try it.

So, I have a simple question (before deciding to install it or not) : do your mode modify creature spawning when trying to sleep?

#72 erebusant

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 04:32 AM

Hi,

I want to try to harden the game but I wonder if this will be too hard for me (I want to install SCS a the same time). If I can sleep safely outdoor, I think I will try it.

So, I have a simple question (before deciding to install it or not) : do your mode modify creature spawning when trying to sleep?

No. This only alters the spawns at the various area spawn points.

It takes a village...


#73 -Aranthys-

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 05:54 AM

Hi,

I want to try to harden the game but I wonder if this will be too hard for me (I want to install SCS a the same time). If I can sleep safely outdoor, I think I will try it.

So, I have a simple question (before deciding to install it or not) : do your mode modify creature spawning when trying to sleep?

No. This only alters the spawns at the various area spawn points.

With SCS, some spawns can be really tough.
For example, 3 hobgobs magi (lvl 10-11 mage) + 3 hobgobs Warriors (Lvl ?? warriors using +1 axes) with a level 7 party... a little bit too much imho.

#74 Fouinto

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 08:28 AM

So, I have a simple question (before deciding to install it or not) : do your mode modify creature spawning when trying to sleep?

No. This only alters the spawns at the various area spawn points.

Ok thank you !

With SCS, some spawns can be really tough.
For example, 3 hobgobs magi (lvl 10-11 mage) + 3 hobgobs Warriors (Lvl ?? warriors using +1 axes) with a level 7 party... a little bit too much imho.

Argh ! I think it will be definitively too hard for me ! Thank you !

#75 kthxbye

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 02:00 AM

I was exploring the western side of the Cloudpeaks mountains and my 6 people party (blade 5, thief 4/mage 3, cleric 4/mage 3, bard 5, ranger 4, mage 4) met an ogre magi plus two ogrillons and two ogre berserkers. The ogre magi had some fifth level spells.. I managed to win only thanks to several criticals hits (and with heavy casualties anyway) with some powerful Dark Horizon equipment, and I couldn't escape 'cause I would've met this spawn plus another spawn (possibly of the same time) on top next time. I'd really make the "spawned creatures don't disappear if you flee" thingy optional, if possible, in the next releases (or lower the level of this kind of spawns, it's a bit an overkill if you also can't escape). :)
All of the above must be considered totally IMHO.

Rose NPC and ktweaks for BG:T

#76 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:44 PM

With SCS, some spawns can be really tough.
For example, 3 hobgobs magi (lvl 10-11 mage) + 3 hobgobs Warriors (Lvl ?? warriors using +1 axes) with a level 7 party... a little bit too much imho.

Argh ! I think it will be definitively too hard for me ! Thank you !


Please don't always follow what other users (guests in this case)might say. In NO WAY at 7th level u will find 3 Hob magi + 3 Hob Warriors ... only at 8+ levels u can have such kind of encounters and ... u face Orcs only far from Cities.

Aranthys: may u let me know when did such encounter happen? It could be a sort of bug, at 6-7 level u don't face 3 hob magi.

It's up to you to try it. I'm pretty sure the mod is quite challenging with SCS installed, but from my experience absolutely playable (not easy if u goo far from civilized area, but it's fair enough :-) ).

mm75

Edited by melkor_morgoth75, 21 June 2009 - 11:47 PM.

Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#77 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:46 PM

I was exploring the western side of the Cloudpeaks mountains and my 6 people party (blade 5, thief 4/mage 3, cleric 4/mage 3, bard 5, ranger 4, mage 4) met an ogre magi plus two ogrillons and two ogre berserkers. The ogre magi had some fifth level spells.. I managed to win only thanks to several criticals hits (and with heavy casualties anyway) with some powerful Dark Horizon equipment, and I couldn't escape 'cause I would've met this spawn plus another spawn (possibly of the same time) on top next time. I'd really make the "spawned creatures don't disappear if you flee" thingy optional, if possible, in the next releases (or lower the level of this kind of spawns, it's a bit an overkill if you also can't escape). :)


Yep, it's just on my list of changes. I only need time to work on it, hopefully mid of this summer :-)

Thanks again for your feedbacks, MUCH appreciated,

mm75
Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#78 -Aranthys-

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:58 AM

With SCS, some spawns can be really tough.
For example, 3 hobgobs magi (lvl 10-11 mage) + 3 hobgobs Warriors (Lvl ?? warriors using +1 axes) with a level 7 party... a little bit too much imho.

Argh ! I think it will be definitively too hard for me ! Thank you !


Please don't always follow what other users (guests in this case)might say. In NO WAY at 7th level u will find 3 Hob magi + 3 Hob Warriors ... only at 8+ levels u can have such kind of encounters and ... u face Orcs only far from Cities.

Aranthys: may u let me know when did such encounter happen? It could be a sort of bug, at 6-7 level u don't face 3 hob magi.

It's up to you to try it. I'm pretty sure the mod is quite challenging with SCS installed, but from my experience absolutely playable (not easy if u goo far from civilized area, but it's fair enough :-) ).

mm75

Well the bard in my party was level 8 (group had about 120.000 xp if I'm not mistaken)
Rest was level 7 or so. It was far away from the city, but my group got obliterated by the 3 magus + 3 gobs.
Without SCS it would have been quite easy i think, but with SCS... eww.

#79 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 04:32 AM

Well the bard in my party was level 8 (group had about 120.000 xp if I'm not mistaken)
Rest was level 7 or so. It was far away from the city, but my group got obliterated by the 3 magus + 3 gobs.
Without SCS it would have been quite easy i think, but with SCS... eww.


So that's fine, how the mod works i mean. It checks for the level of the strongest character and number of party member. I know that with SCS installed it could be difficult sometime (reload could be our friend sometime). But ... u don't have so many chances to face 3 Orc mages + 3 Orc Elite (1% of chance per spawn point).

mm75
Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn

#80 kthxbye

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:18 AM

Yep, it's just on my list of changes. I only need time to work on it, hopefully mid of this summer :-)

Thanks again for your feedbacks, MUCH appreciated,

mm75


Good to know! By the way, it's rather "thank you for the mod" than "thank me for the feedback". :D
Don't worry about time, take all you need not to rush things. :) If you need an hand, let me know, always happy to help (even if I don't know how useful I could be with coding and such :unsure: ). :cheers:

Edited by kthxbye, 22 June 2009 - 06:30 AM.

All of the above must be considered totally IMHO.

Rose NPC and ktweaks for BG:T