48 replies to this topic

[The Amazing Maurice]

Feanor, on Jun 3 2004, 04:25 PM, said:

I would add something : real good and evil alternatives for the plot. As an example : in BG2 you have the option to join either Shadow Thieves or Bodhi, but that was insignificant, 95% of the game is the same. For a PST 2, I would like that, at a certain moment, the plot take too totally different paths until the end.

I agree. There should have been a alternate "evil" ending in Torment

The only recent game to succesfully create the feeling of being truly evil IMO is KOTOR.

[Feanor]

The Amazing Maurice, on Jun 4 2004, 03:07 AM, said:

Feanor, on Jun 3 2004, 04:25 PM, said:

I would add something : real good and evil alternatives for the plot. As an example : in BG2 you have the option to join either Shadow Thieves or Bodhi, but that was insignificant, 95% of the game is the same. For a PST 2, I would like that, at a certain moment, the plot take too totally different paths until the end.

I agree. There should have been a alternate "evil" ending in Torment

The only recent game to succesfully create the feeling of being truly evil IMO is KOTOR.

Amazing, I think you misunderstood my intention. I had in mind not an "alternate evil ending", but a totally different path with totally different quests for that evil ending. For instance, in TOB you have an evil ending if you choose bad answers to Solar's questions, but the game is the same, no matter what side you choose.

[The Amazing Maurice]

Ah right.

That would be revolutionary. I don't think there's ever been a game that has done that before.

[Feanor]

The Amazing Maurice, on Jun 4 2004, 05:22 PM, said:

Ah right.

That would be revolutionary. I don't think there's ever been a game that has done that before.

Correct. That's why I suggested it. I mean, the game shouldn't evolve only with their graphic. The BG2 successors, Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Gothic 2 or KOTOR have all a brilliant graphic, but none of them succeeded to surpass the old BG2.

Maybe Dragon's Age will do it. B)

Edited by Feanor, 04 June 2004 - 09:25 AM.

[Caswallon]

One of the Might & Magic series had something similar to that... M&M 6, I think, or 7. Essentialy, it was the Shadow Thieves/Bodhi thing, but extended through half of the game, i.e. you had to decide between joining with the good or the evil side, and then you worked for one of them for the rest of the game, beating up the opposite faction... Well, that's far easier to do in the M&M games, though, as they haven't that much dialogue.

What I'd like in a PS:T-sequel:
- A whole different story, nothing to do with the Nameless One.
- Favouring dialogue and story over combat everytime.
- "Soft" stats (INT, WIS, CHA) that matter - you don't have to be proficient in combat to "beat" the game. You can, but don't have to.
- A story where you don't have to save the world.
- Hmm, well, and all the other things which PS:T did right.

I couldn't care less for evil options. I never really understood why people would want to play evil...

[Caswallon]

Point taken.

The distinction is hard to make in MW, though...

On second thought:
[Telvanni]
We cherish knowledge, and we respect power.
Good or evil are irrelevant.
[/Telvanni]

Edited by Caswallon, 04 June 2004 - 11:29 AM.

[Feanor]

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Amazing, I think you misunderstood my intention. I had in mind not an "alternate evil ending", but a totally different path with totally different quests for that evil ending. For instance, in TOB you have an evil ending if you choose bad answers to Solar's questions, but the game is the same, no matter what side you choose.

Why two? Why not five and six or nine? If a company can come up with one strong story line - and do substantial development for it they will release it as a game - why bundle in two games in one?

You will end up having the Stronghold effect when people will start whining "Why cannot I do mage's strongholds if I am a fighter?"

Imagine if BG followed this rule. Say, if you sided with Bodhi you were allowed to do only Shadow Temple Quest, Unseen Eye Quest, Destroy Theive's Guild Quest, Twisted Rune, Raelis' etc and if you sided with ST you were allowed to do D'Arnise's Castle, Circus, Slavers, Trademeet and Sphere, etc.

Then after you sailed to Spellhold you would have taken Underwater path if you sided with Bodhi not stopping in the Underdark, and Underdark rout if you sided with the STs...

Then after you got back to the land you'd go fight Bodhi in her layer if you sided with her

or simply free Suldanessellar w/o obligatory jolt to Athkatla if you sided with ST...

I suggested that for more realism : I mean that in all the games until now you have a standard story which you must complete. But I had in mind something different : until now, almost all the games have the classic "destroy the villains/save the country/save yourself and be the hero". But what if, besides that, you had an evil alternative. I mean : the game should start normally, but, at a certain point (before reaching the middle of the plot), the player would have the option to join the enemy ? Your example was not very appropriate for what I have in mind, so I give you a little insight : those quests you quoted have nothing to do with the main plot and they should not be affected by that what I called "evil alternative". For instance : in BG2, if you side with Bodhi, when you reach Spellhold, you could make an alliance with Irenicus and the drow, help them conquer Suldanesselar and, in the end, stab Irenicus in the back and remain the ruler of the elven city. I know, my example was not very appropriate too, because Irenicus wants player's soul, but I could not find another one.

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Would that have been *better* than BG2 proper?

If no one tried such a thing until now, we can't know yet.

[Feanor]

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So what you want to see is the alternative linear path through the game.

Correct. An alternative path through the game for the evil side of the main plot.

[NiGHTMARE]

Alternative storylines for good/evil has been done many times before (Command & Conquer, Warcraft, etc) - just not in an RPG .

[Feanor]

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Alternative storylines for good/evil has been done many times before (Command & Conquer, Warcraft, etc) - just not in an RPG

Those are strategies, Nightmare, which have a campaign for every side. I suggested two paths implemented in the same plot.

[NiGHTMARE]

The Amazing Maurice commented that he didn't think there was a game which had done anything like this before. I simply pointed out there where lots of them that had - and I even mentioned I wasn't talking about RPGs (but then he didn't seem to be either ).

Lots of strategy games do have multiple paths through the same plot anyway (i.e. the different campaigns take place at the same time). Most of the C&C games do this, though the Warcraft games don't.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 07 June 2004 - 01:57 AM.

[raptor]

Sacrifice has, it is somewhat rpg/strategy, but still qualifies.
As you do more missions for one of teh 5 gods, one or more of the other gods might refuse to talk to you anymore. weird game.

I am definitivelly for freeform games, that is the reason i liked Baldurs Gate 1 so much, becose you can go nearly annywhere you want. however, as PST have prooven, to make a great story, you need a linear path to follow, at least at times. the most freeform game i can imagine is Diablo, and that was not good... so there can obviouslly be to much of something, and to little of something else.

[Xaositect_Crayon]

they just need to make a BG-ish game in the planescape universe...