28 replies to this topic

[Cal Jones]

I don't know about anyone else, but if I've slogged trough SoA (and especially if I've been through BG1 beforehand), I feel (as Americans might put it) sorta bummed by the time I get to ToB.
Perhaps it's the knowledge that it will all be over soon, given the speed you are herded through it, but I find the whole thing a little...depressing. Especially as some of the epilogues are, let's face it, a bit miserable. Anyone else agree or am I just a misery guts?

[Abigail]

No, it's not only you. The ending of TOB always seems a little bit depressing for me, whether my PC ascends or not. It seems sad that apparently everyone went separate ways, as if they had never been through all of this together. Even Imoen apparently doesn't keep in touch with her best friend anymore. And for some characters, I just feel sorry, especially Sarevok. He has only one epilogue, so why even bother with trying to help him when he's doomed anyway? :/

[Scipio]

I always do Watcher's Keep as a side-quest in ToB. Knowing that all will end and the NPCs will never be in any more games after ToB, I find the background music outside the keep is dirge-like. It's beautiful but it sounds as if the orchestra is warming up for all the funeral services in dozens or hundreds of years' time, depending on whether the party contains only humans or also some elf-types.

I also find it depressing that if CHARNAME marries Aerie, he will be dead of old age while she's still running with the other kids at the mall. If she loves him desperately, how much will she miss him in her remaining 600 years?

The let-down in ToB, for me, is that it's totally linear. In BG1, ToSC allows you to charge around to other places. In ToB you never get a chance to go back and tell Biff the Understudy that he is a better actor than Vin Diesel, as everyone is.

[Cal Jones]

Scipio, on May 3 2008, 04:58 AM, said:

I always do Watcher's Keep as a side-quest in ToB. Knowing that all will end and the NPCs will never be in any more games after ToB, I find the background music outside the keep is dirge-like. It's beautiful but it sounds as if the orchestra is warming up for all the funeral services in dozens or hundreds of years' time, depending on whether the party contains only humans or also some elf-types.

I also find it depressing that if CHARNAME marries Aerie, he will be dead of old age while she's still running with the other kids at the mall. If she loves him desperately, how much will she miss him in her remaining 600 years?

The let-down in ToB, for me, is that it's totally linear. In BG1, ToSC allows you to charge around to other places. In ToB you never get a chance to go back and tell Biff the Understudy that he is a better actor than Vin Diesel, as everyone is.

To be fair, I think Vin's probably a better actor than Jason Statham...

Yeah Sarevok's ending pees me off too - hopefully the friendship mod (whenever that happens - I've offered to write some dialogue if SConrad is too busy, but I know this one is close to his heart so we'll see) will give some more fitting outcomes. Major peeve here is if you don't ascend and he asks to travel with you, then that should be reflected. I long to say, hey bro, I've got these really cool keep near Athkatla that would be an awesome base of operations. (Or if you're evil and accept his overtures to be your iron right hand...then that should be there too).

Viconia's romantic ending isn't exactly a bag of laughs either, and as for poor old Cernd...
Keldorn learns absolutely nothing from being with you either. His poor wife!

[Kellen]

Jaheira's was too sad too.

[Dark-Mage]

True, most of the endings were sad but is there any real reason to want to give every single NPC a happy ending? I can certainly see the logic behind it (after all, we do get quite attached to our favorites) but if everyone lived happily ever after as a big ole happy family then MEH!!!, it would just feel far to Hollywood.

[Cal Jones]

No, absolutey not - Edwin's ending doesn't work out too well for him but it is quite funny, and rather a case of just desserts. Keldorn's is still fitting (even if you have to feel rather sorry for his wife...hopefully Lord Thorpe around to comfort her ... I wouldn't change that. )

I've just finished Ascension for the first time and the endings are a little longer but still just as miserable (in Sarevok and Cernd's cases). Sarevok should at least get a better ending if he's CG (especially after telling Smelly Melly to stick it!) - after all it should be considered a reward for steering him onto the right path.
It was nice to see a Balthazar epilogue, though.

It does seem that the endings have been written under the assumption that Charname ascended - I usually choose not to, in the end. It feels too hypocritical to take the power (unless I'm playing an evil game, but I generally prefer to be neutral or goodish).

[Abigail]

Cal Jones, on May 4 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

It does seem that the endings have been written under the assumption that Charname ascended - I usually choose not to, in the end. It feels too hypocritical to take the power (unless I'm playing an evil game, but I generally prefer to be neutral or goodish).

I guess it would be hard to write endings reflecting exactly how you played a game, but just a little would be nice. Some modders managed to do this, anyway. I know that NPCs aren't children depending on PC all the time, but it's frustrating to see that things you had done had no meaning in the end. And yes, I'm still speaking mostly of Sarevok.

[Cal Jones]

Abigail, on May 3 2008, 03:31 PM, said:

I guess it would be hard to write endings reflecting exactly how you played a game, but just a little would be nice. Some modders managed to do this, anyway. I know that NPCs aren't children depending on PC all the time, but it's frustrating to see that things you had done had no meaning in the end. And yes, I'm still speaking mostly of Sarevok.

Yup, I can see how he might get that ending if you went through the whole "power is bad" thing, then ascended anyway after he urged you not to, because it is hypocritical and he'd probably feel a bit disillusioned. But not if you didn't ascend and had got the "I'd like to travel with you" dialogue. Meh...

And I agree that it bites that Imoen just cuts herself off after all you've done for her...I mean, she's her own person now but the odd tea invite would be nice eh?

Maybe we should get together and do a happy endings pack.

[Daulmakan]

IIRC, the Edwin Romance mod adds a happier epilogue to Viconia.

[Gabrielle]

It is depressing. You are saying goodbye to your character and the npcs as they go seperate ways. Its the end of one of the best game franchises.

[Crazee]

Kellen, on May 3 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

Jaheira's was too sad too.

Oh my God, YES! I always get unreasonably upset whenever I read her no-romance-epilogue. Maybe it is fitting, but after she's been through so much for CHARNAME, it just seems so unfair. I love it (for the emotion it reacts in me) but at the same time hate it.

[Cal Jones]

CrazeeFFan, on May 4 2008, 12:53 AM, said:

Kellen, on May 3 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

Jaheira's was too sad too.

Oh my God, YES! I always get unreasonably upset whenever I read her no-romance-epilogue. Maybe it is fitting, but after she's been through so much for CHARNAME, it just seems so unfair. I love it (for the emotion it reacts in me) but at the same time hate it.

I prefer to think she went back to the Sword Coast and settled down with Kivan (Kivan BG2 mod notwithstanding). I think they'd make a nice pair.

[Abigail]

Daulmakan, on May 4 2008, 02:51 AM, said:

IIRC, the Edwin Romance mod adds a happier epilogue to Viconia.

Yes, and, of course, new epilogues for Edwin

I'm all for the Happy Endings mod Maybe it would be Hollywood, but damn it, sometimes it's fine!

[Kellen]

Cal Jones, on May 4 2008, 06:14 AM, said:

CrazeeFFan, on May 4 2008, 12:53 AM, said:

Kellen, on May 3 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

Jaheira's was too sad too.

Oh my God, YES! I always get unreasonably upset whenever I read her no-romance-epilogue. Maybe it is fitting, but after she's been through so much for CHARNAME, it just seems so unfair. I love it (for the emotion it reacts in me) but at the same time hate it.

I prefer to think she went back to the Sword Coast and settled down with Kivan (Kivan BG2 mod notwithstanding). I think they'd make a nice pair.

No! She's mine.

Aye, actually on that topic. I've never really managed to like Viconia. She's irritating, manipulating, hot and cold constantly, and a vicious harridan. I tried grinding through her romance in SoA(Why would I take her with my good character, the only reason she was in my party was because she was EVIL). It was a good guys romance. I tried to make it through it in ToB. It was like pulling teeth.

But her non-romance epilogue, for some unexplainable reason, touched me, very deeply.

Quote

For this last act, the elves accepted her, and Queen Ellesime bestowed the highest honors of the Seldarine, an accolade never before given to one of her dark kind. Viconia reportedly bowed once, without emotion, and then left. Her fate remains unknown.

That line just affected me so much for some reason. I don't know why. So I played through the romance. Played through ToB romance, and was hit with that epilogue. What?!?! Disgusting.

And Sarevok's. His was the one that convinced me he could be redeemed. And then what do you know. Same exact epilogue.

[Zyraen]

Quote

I'm all for the Happy Endings mod Maybe it would be Hollywood, but damn it, sometimes it's fine!

Kiyone ~Indeed. After all, happy endings are just for stories that haven't ended yet.~
(off the side note, yes this is an actual line from BTL...)

That I think is the main reason why most of the ToB Epilogues are the way they are.
I really wished Viconia had a better ending. But given that I romance her only when I RP a really really really evil SOB of a Bhaalspawn, I think its fitting.

Edited by Zyraen, 04 May 2008 - 05:37 AM.

[Alatariel]

I think the epilogues are more or less ok. It is everything besides that makes TOB depressing for me. Imho, it is simply a badly written, tiring chain of encounters. The only thing that can force me to play it once more, from time to time, is Domi's Kivan mod.

And, well, why not put an option 'install an alternative epilogue for x' to IEP? It fits the mod's policy, I would say. Only someone has to write them. Any volunteers?

[Scipio]

Alatariel, on May 4 2008, 04:02 PM, said:

And, well, why not put an option 'install an alternative epilogue for x' to IEP? It fits the mod's policy, I would say. Only someone has to write them. Any volunteers?

Volunteers? Only if you want some epilogues that transcend the surreal. Maybe I'll dream some up next time I take a shower. That's where I do all my thinking. My only thinking.

[Choo Choo]

Incidentally, there is such a thread in the IEP general discussion already. Not posted in for months, admittedly.

[Alatariel]

Sorry. You cannot expect me to remember everything XD (actually, I remember nothing and am sick and in a foul mood... I wanted to do sooo many things during the long weekend! And to think that I was beaten by a common cold! Pfff!)