90 replies to this topic

[Nebukad]

And some classes can go even higher? Or eveybody hits 40 and tahts it?

Yes, that's indeed it. Of course, unless I'm mistaken, multiclass characters could reach 40/40/40.

[chaz58]

Downloaded this yesterday, my first impressions are that it's pretty damn good.

The dialogue is well written (if slightly longwinded) and highly engaging, the cutscene with Irenicus in hell was nicely done and while he is extremely powerful, I can see the RP reasons for this (I hope having all the increased difficulty mods I could find installed will help balance this   ).

It's slightly irritating that to get the mask you have to

*SPOILER*

be extremely insulting to Ellesime, something I'm sure wouldn't endear you to her, but that's a minor complaint.

Now, as long as I can offer Imoen's soul to Irenicus at the first opportunity I'll be happy...  

[Arcalian]

Hey Dorotea, did you get my email about this?

[Adia]

So far, so good in my opinion. I really like the mod, the dialogue and all that jazz so far. My only problem is the lack of dialogue between Irenicus and the custom NPCs (but that's already been explained to me).

[dorotea]

It really depends on what you have promised him and how you treated him in these conversations you were having... You might yet get away with it .

[T.G.Maestro]

Hi Dorotea!

I'd like to add my 2 cents, if You don't mind.
First of all, let me congratulate You - this is a great work, you managed to create something unique and most excellent! Really, I like this mod much better than the Redemption version.

After reading through this entire thread about balance and such, I had a bunch of ideas/suggestions to post, yet I will keep them to myself for a while. You know, I seem to have a tendency to try to make things more balanced, but in this case I wouldn't touch Irenicus' level either. 30 is fine, he IS Irenicus after all. Your attempts to balance him are fine, the idea to make him fall with PC to charm, etc. is truly a nice one! Yet, I'd like You to once again consider one thing - something that makes him REALLY unbalanced and somewhat out of character too: his spells. Do You really think he should have all those available for him? Hardly. Take a look at his personality and alignment! I think he should be much more specialized when it comes to his spells, and you should drop a bunch of them from his spellbook. This would be good for the roleplaying factor and for the balancing part as well. Good for the roleplaying, since the player could only use his somewhat "less gentle" spells at the start (and should let him learn new ones, if one decides to allow him a different profile), and it would be good for the balance, since it would force players to spend MUCH money on those scrolls. And most importantly, it would be a most wise move to remove spells like Wish from his spellbook, spells that can ruin the fun of the game too fast.

Another idea: while You are removing some more powerful or less "evil" spells from his book, You could add him an innate, one that is very fitting to him and his character. If You've ever played Weimer's I.Irenicus in Hell, you might remember the "Shatter Magic" ability. He used it there (and now he uses it at the Tree of Life too), and I must say it is a very nice and fitting add-on. To continue my reasoning, we (over at Refinements) already implemented this ability as a detailed HLA (for Sorcerers), and I'd gladly contribute to Your mod by sending the required files to You - to add this innate to him. It isn't really powerful, and he should have only one use/ day. If you take a look at the Refinements Website, you can see a screenshot of this ability.

I hope my suggestions and proposal were useful, wish You all the best with this great mod!

TG

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 06 September 2004 - 12:39 AM.

[dorotea]

Very very nice ideas TGM. In fact I always said I need help with balancing JI, but you guys were so busy... and lets just say that while I am fairly good in writing the plot and coding the cutscenes I am not nearly as good in game balancing issues. We should talk about this some more, definitely.

I am planning to fix few minor bugs and do another update -- perhaps it can include some tweaking of Irenicus's creature.

Please send me the files if you can be so kind, with instructions.

D.

[T.G.Maestro]

Sorry if I become a nuisance or such, but once again I'd like to stress that it would be nice (and important) to add more non-redemption dialogues with the PC, even if one decides to leave Irenicus as he is and forget redemption at start. Nothing serious, 2-3 would be enough. It would greatly nhance the roleplay factor of this mod.

[dorotea]

Firstly TGM you are never a nuisance, I am a bit moody and sad over the recent events in Russia , so I am slow to answer and prefer to do it when I am not overly stressed and upset (which is a rare case these days).

Secondly yes -- originally I wanted as many 'evil' banters as there are 'redeeming' ones. In fact, the normal banters will still happen until dialog #5 , even if you are not redeeming JI. (Unless you will tell him outright to bug off -- then he will stop talking, which I think is 'in character'). The dialogs that won't happen if you have 'Undecided' GLOBAL set to 3 are the Ellesime ones. And these are the last 3. You will get the 'evil' one instead.

If you think there should be more dialogs of this evil kind -- after PC tells JI to shut up and bloody stop talking... hmm... any ideas what can be discussed? Because I really cannot see Irenicus start any dialogs at this point other than throwing insults and threats at PC and this can only end in violence.

Since there are a few chances to start the fight with JI already I am reluctant to follow this path. If you want to beat him up once again -- just kill him outright I say, why bother talking?

Edited by dorotea, 13 September 2004 - 07:25 AM.

[dorotea]

Well, the trick is to let him to refuse the soul on his own, ie give him permission to take it. If you are on the right path he will make his own choice.

Spoiler:


















Basically when you see him change alignment you have done it.

[dorotea]

Please PM or email me for the explanations -- I do not want to post too many spoilers here. No, I don't think you will have to replay the ToB.

[T.G.Maestro]

Slightly offtopic:

Dorotea, if you have some time, we could discuss his spell selection changes in PM, or you could just start a new thread for it. I'd like to help, if needed. Which one do you prefer?

[T.G.Maestro]

Nebukad is one of the LR primary coders , who is working on JI custom kit.

May I ask what kind of kit? What is the problem with the classical mage one? IMO it fits him perfectly, I wouldn't change it.

[Nebukad]

May I ask what kind of kit? What is the problem with the classical mage one? IMO it fits him perfectly, I wouldn't change it.

Well, currently it's not much of a kit, just a (non-player-selectable) mage kit that doesn't have the extra spell HLA's and it's not included in the mod yet. There was some plans of making some custom HLA's for him, but there isn't really much that works at the moment.

The original idea was to remove the three HLA's for balancing reasons, but Dorotea apparently didn't want to add something that just removes things. Also, some new abilities might be refreshing, but I suppose that unless someone has some bright ideas there won't be much in that department. I currently have any clear plans for one ability and even that seems to be pretty difficult to get to work.

[T.G.Maestro]

The original idea was to remove the three HLA's for balancing reasons, but Dorotea apparently didn't want to add something that just removes things. Also, some new abilities might be refreshing, but I suppose that unless someone has some bright ideas there won't be much in that department.

Heh, if everything would have such an easy solution..! Please pay a visit and take a look at the new Mage HLa tables in the Refinements mod (if you haven't already done so for some unknown reason...). They are fine for him (just as for any other mages of course). I say either leave his HLA table as it is, or directly add him the Refinements table.
Also, I already sent Dorotea the Shatter Magic innate for him. It will be a most fitting and unique addition to his character (and he also uses it in the weimeric Improved Irenicus encounter).
As for HLAs, the fact that he doesn't have any at 30th level is enough for balancing, there is no need for keepin him away from powerful magics available for every high-level mage - and it would be completely without logic too.

I currently have any clear plans for one ability and even that seems to be pretty difficult to get to work.

I wonder why you don't start with the most obvious choice: if you intend to add him some special high-level powers, well, he ALREADY HAS SOME. Simply think of Clone Spawn and Rapture of the Father for example.. but one can easily create nice special spells based on his cutscenes. The opportunity is there, it would be a great waste to drop these while working on something comlpetey unknown.
BTW, if you 2 need help with this part, I'd gladly help you out . (If I find some time, of course )

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 14 September 2004 - 10:23 AM.