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Older versions archive part 2: Betas


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#21 aVENGER

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Posted 03 April 2003 - 06:43 AM

Mod updated to v2.29
  • The Mislead cast by the 'Rogue's Ward' buckler is now an item ability rather than a spell (it used to alert the Cowled Wizards without a magic license)
  • The 'Chosen of Cyric' party scripts have been improved (especially the cleric, barbarian and assassin script)
  • Spirit Warrior AI improved. He should no longer attack charmed party members or enemies
  • Some minor item description errors were corrected
FYI, v2.30 (FINAL) will probably be released in a week or two. It will finalize the main Rogue ReBalancing component and will probably be my last mod revision for quite a while, since my university's main exam season is starting this month. The 'Chosen of Cyric' component will remain in BETA stages until revision 3.00 which will include the dialogue for that encounter and finalize it. However, due to the lack of free time on my side v3.00 will be delayed for an undetermined time period...

#22 aVENGER

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 04:01 AM

Mod revision v2.30 has been released and can be considered as FINAL, meaning that there should be no bugs present in the certified mods (Rogue Rebalancing Mod, Elven Charm/Sleep resistance fix and Quicker Startout). The Chosen of Cyric component remains in BETA stages however, and it will be finalized on another occasion. What follows is the list of the changes in v2.30:

Rogue Rebalancing Mod
  • The 'Tracking' HLA was erroneously granted to all Thieves instead of just Bounty Hunters
  • Some minor spelling errors in the readme files and item descriptions whave been corrected
  • Added the improved Short Sword of Backstabbing*
Elven Charm/Sleep resistance fix
  • Resolved an issue that could cause the Charm and Sleep immunities to fail if the character
    was protected by a (Minor) Globe of Invulnerability.
Chosen of Cyric encounter
  • Resolved some minor scripting issues.
*The improved Short Sword of Backstabbing
In PnP AD&D this sword is supposed to have some extra features when wielded by a Thief. Here's an extract from the The Complete Thief's Handbook which explains it:

Short sword of Backstabbing: In the hands of any character this is a +2 magical weapon, but in the hands of a thief it is especially potent. When a thief makes a backstab attempt with this short sword, it allows him to attack as if four levels higher than his actual experience level, with corresponding improvements in THAC0, attack rolls, and damage multiplier on a successful hit.


I translated this to BG2 in this form:

In the hands of any character this sword acts as a standard +3 magical weapon, but in the hands of a Thief it becomes especially potent granting him an additional +2 bonus to hit and increasing his backstab multiplier by one.


The sword still remains usable by anyone, but the additional bonuses will be granted only to Thieves. In case anyone's interested, it was done using this method.

BTW, due to the circumstances mentioned in my earlier post this will probably be my last mod revision for a while. You may still post bug reports or future mod suggestions on this board which I will browse ocassionaly.

#23 Thot

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 02:20 PM

There's a minor bug (i checked it didn't come from the french translation): I've try to uninstall the mod, so i've installed the "Kit uninstaller", and when i checked the rogues, i saw description of bounty hunter instead of skald (it was the unbalanced one).
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

#24 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 02:51 PM

First of all, I really enjoyed your mod, especially the Cyric component. It is a fine idea, however it still needs some improvement. I was around 3.000.000 XP/party member, and killed them off quite easy, without using ANY high-level abilities. I don't know if I miss something, but I fail to find out, what their purpose is with the PC. Their dialogue is very amusing (why so short?). Venduris could talk much more. I know, this is only a beta version, so I'm waiting for the real quest!

As for the battle:
-The PC and the party members are partially visible, their heads can be seen at the lower part of the screen.
-Make them use much stronger pre-buffs! (Undead Sola comes in mind..)
-Since there are thieves in their party, let them use at least one trap.
-I don't know how, but their warrior somehow manages to hit through P.from M.W. Is he using a normal sword? As I looked at the .cre-s, I saw a bunch of enchanted weapons.
-Let their spellcasters call some summons to avoid high-level fighters attacking them first (for example: Protection from evil as pre buff, then Summon Fiend, Gate, Cacofiend)
-The thieves should use Potions of Invisibility more often (backstab --> Invisible)
-The spellcasters should protect themselves much harder. It is extremely easy for a 3.000.000 XP party to bring down a Blur/Mirror Image/Stoneskin/Golbe of Invulnerability combo. Let the sorceress cast P.f.M.W. every time she loses it, or it expires (just like Imp. Irenicus)
-Why not give them some ToB high level abilities? I know, there are people who don't have ToB, but it would make them much more challenging (Greater Whirlwind/Hardiness for the fighter, Greater Evasion/Time Trap/Assassination for the rogues, Dragon's Breath for Selina, Storm of Vengeance/F.Deva and Implosion for Kerith)
-Do not push Unholy Blight with the cleric, it is worthless. Let him use Flame Strike, Sunray (against Valen!)
-They don't have good tactics against buffed tanks like Korgan, or a high-level magic resistant Monk. My 23 leveled Monk PC vanquished 3 or 4 of them, without being hurt too bad.

Thats is for now, I will replay this encounter a few times and see if there are any other issues to talk of.
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#25 aVENGER

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 07:02 PM

First of all, I really enjoyed your mod, especially the Cyric component.


Thanks :)

I was around 3.000.000 XP/party member, and killed them off quite easy, without using ANY high-level abilities.


Hmm...well, they don't use cheesy tactics like the infamous Bioware multiple chain contingencies/triggers/sequencers and such, but they shouldn't be that easy as well. Some people even complained that the battle was too hard. I guess it depends on the party setup. Would you share your battle tactics with us so that I know what part of their scripts I can improve ?

I don't know if I miss something, but I fail to find out, what their purpose is with the PC. Their dialogue is very amusing (why so short?). Venduris could talk much more. I know, this is only a beta version, so I'm waiting for the real quest!


From the mod readme of the Chosen of Cyric component: "Currently, it is in very early development stages and the only purpose for its release is the public testing of my combat AI scripts."

As for the battle:
-The PC and the party members are partially visible, their heads can be seen at the lower part of the screen.


What version of my mod are you using and at which resolution are you playing? This bug was present in v2.27 (Beta) and below. If you are still using the betas please update to v2.30 (Final). It corrects some bugs and also slightly improves the enemy AI. There is also a known issue with unsupported BG2 resolutions (1024x768 and above).

Make them use much stronger pre-buffs


Hmm, perhaps...

Since there are thieves in their party, let them use at least one trap.


Actually, I already planned this but never had the time to properly implement it. It may be included in later revisions...

I don't know how, but their warrior somehow manages to hit through P.from M.W. Is he using a normal sword? As I looked at the .cre-s, I saw a bunch of enchanted weapons.


Hmm...this shouldn't be happening...I'll check his weapons. There may be some hidden bug because the weapons were ported from IWD1.

EDIT - I just double checked this issue...the weapons used by all of my melee characters are correctly counted as enchanted and will be stopped by Protection from Magical Weapons. The only weapons which might not count as enchanted are the arrows of biting/acid which Bodak employs and perhaps also the Asp's Nest darts which Selina uses. This was corrected in Kevin's fixpack IIRC.

Let their spellcasters call some summons to avoid high-level fighters attacking them first (for example: Protection from evil as pre buff, then Summon Fiend, Gate, Cacofiend)


The cleric will summon skeleton warriors. As for the sorceress, it's not really her thing (no summoning spells in spellbook) but I'll consider this anyway.

The thieves should use Potions of Invisibility more often


Eh? Venduris uses them every round !

The spellcasters should protect themselves much harder. It is extremely easy for a 3.000.000 XP party to bring down a Blur/Mirror Image/Stoneskin/Golbe of Invulnerability combo. Let the sorceress cast P.f.M.W. every time she loses it, or it expires


Hmm...I haven't included protection from magical weapons in their scripts because of some detections issues. If I manage to resolve this they'll cast them.

Why not give them some ToB high level abilities?


No.

Do not push Unholy Blight with the cleric, it is worthless.


His script is somewhat random...he should cast other spells as well but use unholy blight only against good characters.

hey don't have good tactics against buffed tanks like Korgan, or a high-level magic resistant Monk. My 23 leveled Monk PC vanquished 3 or 4 of them, without being hurt too bad.


Hmm...could you be a bit more specific? What exactly should they do ?

Thats is for now, I will replay this encounter a few times and see if there are any other issues to talk of.


Thanks again for your feedback T.G. I'm looking forward to your detailed battle descriptions so that I know what areas of the encounter to work on.

#26 aVENGER

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 07:56 PM

There's a minor bug (i checked it didn't come from the french translation): I've try to uninstall the mod, so i've installed the "Kit uninstaller", and when i checked the rogues, i saw description of bounty hunter instead of skald (it was the unbalanced one).

Fixed!

There was a tiny spelling error in my .tp2 (mismatched strrefs) which caused this to happen. I've updated the archive and it should now work properly.

#27 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 12:23 AM

And here you go, now comes a complete battle description and possible solutions.

My party:
1.: Sygius - 23. Monk, with magic resistance above 100%, using a revised high-level ability table. He uses many of Balthazars abilities, but in a highly balanced and weakened version (Shadowless Kick, Shadow stance, Chant, Dragon Fist, and Evasion) These abilities are quite hard to use, they were re-balamced for use in the game by a PC. They don't make the monk stronger, and the loss of the Whirlwind attacks and Hardiness make it much more tactical) He has pretty good equipment, giving him -12 AC and -10 THAC0. Hit points: 102.
2.: Korgan - 22. level. No need to introduce him. A tank. Th PC Monk is much more dangerous however.
3.: Edwin - 19. level. Powerful equipment - most of them from Itemupgrade mod - and good spell selection
4.: Valen - no comments. If you've read my topics in Weimers "Valen mod" forum, you would know that I highly revised Valen and use a heavily balanced version of her. Now she is beatable, but according to her Eminent Vampire status, she is an immense threat. She has average equipment.
5.: Imoen 14. level Mage. She is instead of Solaufein, who is currenty turned by Bodhi. Average spell selection, she is nothing compared to Edwin. Has some nice equipment tough, like the Staff of Elemental Mastery (I haven't used it however)
6.: Silver Star 23. level Assassin. She is a replacement of Viconia, for the same reasons as above. She is very good in poisons (Sulphurus Poison!) and crossbows, hasted, but very vulnerable. Immune to poisons.

My party uses very powerful equipment, but I only used their "passive" bonuses, I haven't summoned greater creatures like devas or demons.
My spellcasters had their spells at 60-70%, some of the most damaging ones were already used at the battle against Bodhi and Undead Sola. Edwin has powerful Contingencies active. They come against Venduris without any pre-combat buffs. To make the battle more difficult, I altered your .cre-s slightly (a bit higher levels, stats, HP, and effects).

Party: At the start of the battle, my PC Monk attacks immediately and targets any visible opponents. Korgan enters 'Rage' and does the same, behind the PC. Valen goes invisible and is waiting for a backstab. Imoen and Edwin are casting P.f.M.W. immediately. Silver runs back and poisons her arrows.
Cyric: Most of them uses Invisibility. Venduris goes in for a backstab. Kerith and Selina flees to the back of the screen to cast spells unmolested. Grok attacks Edwin. Zaeron (he uses the best tactics!) buffs up himself, goes invisible and attacks the mages. Bodak starts fireing poisoned arrows.

Party: The Monk and Korgan targets always the same targets, damaging Bodak and Venduris seriously in no time. Bodak falls very quickly, he is almost unprotected. Venduris does very good damage with backstab on Korgan (around 60-70Hp) but this hardly cripples the dwarf (179 Hp + Greater Healing potions). Both of them move very fast. Valen backstabs Venduris when he becomes visible, and he falls to Near death. He dies shortly after. Edwin is heavily attacked by Grok (and he manages to HIT HIM SOMEHOW, so he uses Shadow Door to flee). Imoen falls uncounscious because of Kerith's Greater Command. Silver fires heavily poisonous arrows on every visible opponent, this effect is fatal on Kerith, who fails his spells very often because of this.
Cyric: Bodak is partially visible, but his main mistake is that he stays near the action. He becomes quickly a prey to one of the stronger warriors. Venduris has a good tactic, but he should attack the weaker party members with backstab, and ignore summones or other NPC's protected f. M.W. Grok does good work early on, but he forgots to use any combat buffs. Potion of Invulnerability and Heroism comes in mind, with improved haste or Enrage - he is a barbarian, right? Let him use that B.Rage!) Zaeron works pretty annoying (and this way very efficient). He is always invisible, has several combat protections, and backstabs good (25-45 Hp). He is difficult to handle in the as long as there are others to cover his attacks. He uses very weak protections and buffs however. Kerith's Skeletons are worthless, they don't have much chance against a party around 3.000.000 Xp. However, I changed the effect of the priest spell Animate Dead, so that it summons Boneguards (IWD1-2) from 20. level, and Apocalyptic Boneguards (IWD2) from 25. They are absolutely beatable, but much more of a challange for high-level parties. They made the battle much more difficult, I had to avoid them and concentrate on the opoosing party. Selina somehow forgots to use Contingencies and Sequencers. She starts off casting a bunch of Horrid Wiltings, but her targeting is poor - she casts them at the nearest enemy (this time th monk, who cannot be harmed by magic).
Party: Bodak and Venduris Dead, the next one is Kerith. Since he doesn't use any physical protections (Physical Mirror), and combat buffs, he is quite vulnerable to missiles. Silvers arrows cripple his castings, and he falls to the united Korgan/Valen/Monk assault. Grok fights very good, but just as the thieves fall, he becomes an easy target for the fighters united attacks. Zaeron is quite a pain in the arse, but either he rins out of Potions, or his invisibility wears off, well, just as these are gone, he is dead meat (see above at Grok and Kerith). Selina is the last. Since she is wasting most of her spells on Sygius, at the time the warriors go for her, she is out of the most damaging spells. She completely forgots to us protections, only some Stone Skin, which lasts for a round against 2-3 fighters. Once she is surrounded, she dies very fast. The Boneguards remain summoned for 3 turns, so they are either unsommoned by this time, or destroyed. Only 4 party members were fighting, Edwin needed to flee and heal himself, and Imoen was uncounsious.
Summary: the opponents weakest point was that their thieves fall too easy to a direct assault, and without their annoying assistance, the others become very vulnerable.

Possible changes:
-Let them use powerful summons, and call them BEFORE the battle. If this is an ambush, then do not count on "fair play".
-Set traps in several locations (use Bounty Hounter traps to Maze party members)
-Bodak and Zaeron shouldn't be visible at the start of the battle. Let them hide out of sight, and cast their buffs and protections unmolested.
-Use MUCH harder and MORE pre-buffs. They use very-very weak bonuses compared to many other tactical encounters out there. As I've already said, take a look at Undead Sola (14. level mage) and Weimers smarter mages!
-Improved Haste Grok, Zaeron and Venduris. LEt the rogues use Potions of Power.
-Let Selina cast a spell sequencer against the party (Remove Magic, Malison, Confuse, for example). Let her cast Remove Magic more often at spellcasters and buffed party members. Cast Lower resistance on highly magic-resistant opponents, but ignore summons! Let her call Demons before the battle. Only attack unprotected and no-resistant foes with damaging spells. LEt her protect herself much more often (again, the good example is Imp.Irenicus)
-Kerith should use stronger pre-buffs as well, as I've said above. Let him cast P.f.Evil 10'Radius, and call Pit Fiends. Make the party highly resistant to fire to avoid being burned to ashes when the demons start fireing Fireballs). Let him use Sanctuary as he gets wounded (even as a ForceSpell, if necessary) and heal himself. If his THAC0 would be improved (by using potions and spells, and even a bit change on the .cre, he should use the "Invisibility-Harm-Invisibility combo on fighters). Drop spells like Unholy Blight, use Blade Barrier, Sunray, Flame Strike, Firestorm on the party (since his comrades are immune to fire).
-Grok should always attack the "vulnerable" opponents, I mean ignore magically protected foes.

Some possible bugs: they semm to see the invisible, I don't know if this is from their scripts. They soemhow knows where I am when I become invisible. This is without casting True Sight.

And one more thing: soemof their equipment should be undroppable, and boosted a bit. I know, this counts as "cheese", but I often use it in my modifications, and I must say, this makes opponents much more difficult. I think tey should drop only half of their goods from IWD, not all of the stuff is needed. For example: Grok should only drop his weapons. Selina only the amulet. Venduris only his sword and the cowl.

To spice up the battle, they could have soem buffs from Cyric himself (he wants you dead badly, right?) Maybe some powerful magically enchanted assassins (think of the ToB Pocket Plane challange!!) would come in handy. They would fit the storyline perfectly, and with their immense backstab and good scripting they could give the needed boost to the Chosens of Cyric.

That's it for now, I hope you would find this useful! Keep up the good work!
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#28 aVENGER

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:53 AM

T.G.Maestro wrote

My party: [snip]


Well, that explains why you found the battle easy. You are using many custom characters with custom abilities, in your party while the encounter was balanced for a standard SoA party setup.

Edwin is heavily attacked by Grok (and he manages to HIT HIM SOMEHOW


Impossible. I've personally tested this and both of his weapons are definitively stopped with Protection from magical Weapons.

Venduris has a good tactic, but he should attack the weaker party members with backstab, and ignore summones or other NPC's protected


Actually, he does. I've scripted him to target spellcasters while they don't have Stoneskins active, but there was no way for me to detect Prot. From magical Weapons (IE scripting limitation).

Grok does good work early on, but he forgots to use any combat buffs. Potion of Invulnerability and Heroism comes in mind, with improved haste or Enrage - he is a barbarian, right? Let him use that B.Rage!)


He does use those items and abilities but only when he is not severely wounded (HP>90%).

Zaeron works pretty annoying (and this way very efficient). He is always invisible, has several combat protections, and backstabs good (25-45 Hp).


He just uses Mislead, he is not always invisible.

Selina somehow forgots to use Contingencies and Sequencers. She starts off casting a bunch of Horrid Wiltings, but her targeting is poor - she casts them at the nearest enemy (this time th monk, who cannot be harmed by magic).


Noted, I'll fix it soon. Thanks for reporting this!

Kerith. Since he doesn't use any physical protections (Physical Mirror), and combat buffs, he is quite vulnerable to missiles.


Well, he has the Boots of Avoidance and the Large Shield +1 +4 vs Missiles and the Girdle of Piercing. Your characters must have very low thac0 indeed...

Possible changes: Let them use powerful summons, and call them BEFORE the battle.


Hmm...not really sure but I'd rather not do that.

Set traps in several locations (use Bounty Hounter traps to Maze party members)


Yes I will add a few traps but they'll be standard thief traps since the party has no Bounty Hunter. Zaeron should be doing a decent job of mazing the enemies though.

Bodak and Zaeron shouldn't be visible at the start of the battle. Let them hide out of sight, and cast their buffs and protections unmolested.


They already use their potions and spells in the prep sequence, and Zaeron does cast Mislead immediately after the battle begins. I figure that is quite enough.

Use MUCH harder and MORE pre-buffs. They use very-very weak bonuses compared to many other tactical encounters out there. As I've already said, take a look at Undead Sola (14. level mage) and Weimers smarter mages


I'll do that, but don't expect me to include any multiple chain contingency stuff and whatnot :)

Improved Haste Grok, Zaeron and Venduris. LEt the rogues use Potions of Power.


Selina already does this if you don't damage her too much.

Let Selina cast a spell sequencer against the party (Remove Magic, Malison, Confuse, for example).


She already does that the beginning of the encounter...didn't you even notice ?

Cast Lower resistance on highly magic-resistant opponents, but ignore summons!


Already scripted but with low priority.

Let her call Demons before the battle.


No. I find them too unreliable to be useful.

LEt her protect herself much more often (again, the good example is Imp.Irenicus)


I'll think about this but I'm not really a fan of BG2's Brach-PfMW-Breach-PfMW tactics. I prefer the BG1/IWD method of game play.

Kerith should use stronger pre-buffs as well, as I've said above. Let him cast P.f.Evil 10'Radius,


This might be a good a idea, since the Free Action spell could be broken (according to Kevin Dorner).

Let him use Sanctuary as he gets wounded (even as a ForceSpell, if necessary) a


He already does, but you probably killed him too quickly. BTW, I'll NEVER use Forced Spells except to emulate contingencies and triggers which can not be cast otherwise by enemies. This is one of the things which I most loathed about the Bioware scripting style.

THAC0 would be improved (by using potions and spells, and even a bit change on the .cre, he should use the "Invisibility-Harm-Invisibility combo on fighters).


He already casts harm but only when he is safe from attacks.

Grok should always attack the "vulnerable" opponents, I mean ignore magically protected foes.


He already targets spellcasters and weaker enemies as I noted above, but unfortunately, I found no way to detect Prot. From Magical Weapons. via scripting.

they semm to see the invisible, I don't know if this is from their scripts. They soemhow knows where I am when I become invisible. This is without casting True Sight.


Venduris has an enhanced 'Detect Illusion' ability (check the readme) and other thieves i the group use the standard Detect invisibility when they can see no enemies.

And one more thing: soemof their equipment should be undroppable, and boosted a bit. I know, this counts as "cheese" but...


No.

To spice up the battle, they could have soem buffs from Cyric himself (he wants you dead badly, right?)


Cyric is not allowed to intervene directly against the Bhaalspawn (that was forbidden by Ao the Overfather). His Chosen are acting on their own account (they hope to impress him).

What I could do is to create a more powerful version of the encounter for higher difficulty levels (HARD and IMPOSSIBLE) but as I mentioned above I lack the free time...

#29 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 02:02 AM

As for custom characters, as I've already said, I didn't ised ANY(!) of their special abilities or ToB high-level abilities. My monk foght as a normal monk WITHOUT spacial abilites, and Vavlen was heavily underpowered as well. She didn't even used her claws. Silver Star is good at poisons, but besides that she is worthless.
My party was just as any normal party around 3.000.000 XP.
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#30 aVENGER

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 02:40 AM

Then you should have no problems beating the encounter with a standard SoA party (which consists of the Protagonist + 5 normal BG2 NPCs). I suggest you load up a Final Save from some of your earlier SoA attempts (assuming your characters have less than 3 million XP and the Protagonist has not gained the Tears of Bhaal special abilities yet) and test the encounter that way. Details on that method can be found a few posts above ^

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 05:37 AM

offtopic: Maestro, can you send me your weaker Balthazar abilities? how have you done it that only the pc monk can select them and the other fighters have the normal abilities when you replaced hardiness etc with them?
for the mod undead spell: how have you done that? do you have to import the creatures into bg2 and then modify the spell?

#32 aVENGER

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 12:21 AM

Mod revision 2.31 is now available - just a few minor bugfixes and AI tweaks:

Rogue ReBalancing Mod
  • Improved Short Sword of Backstabbing no longer adds an off-hand Thac0 bonus
Chosen of Cyric encounter
  • Added alternate tactics for the group Cleric and Sorceress
  • Some targeting script errors fixed
Kit descriptions Uninstaller
  • Skald and Bounty Hunter descriptions are now properly restored
That should about cover it. If no more critical bugs emerge, this should be the last revision of this mod for a longer time period.

#33 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 02:08 AM

aVENGER: right, today I will go and test the encounter with a my last final save (that will be more than 3.000.000 XP I think :huh: . Once again my address is tgm@mail.uti.hu.
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#34 aVENGER

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 02:17 AM

Excellent! Be sure to download the latest version (v2.31) as it contains some AI improvements. Also, please don't alter the contents of the mod, play it as it was intended.

#35 T.G.Maestro

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 02:20 AM

And a few other things. Last time I hadn't had the time to answer all your comments aVENGER, so I will do it this time:

-Right, the "hit-through-PFMW" was my fault. When I altered Grok to be a bit stronger, I mistakenly drop his right hand axe :lol: and his hand was actually a 'normal' weapon. Shaaaaame... :P

-"He does use those items and abilities but only when he is not severely wounded (HP>90%)."
Right, and this means he won't use them at all. Against a high.level offensive party how long do you accept him to be above 90% HP? For a round perhaps.

-"They already use their potions and spells in the prep sequence, and Zaeron does cast Mislead immediately after the battle begins. I figure that is quite enough."
Since this IS an ambush, I don't see any sense in this. If this would be a stand-up fight, then ok, but, these are rogues, who wan't the party DEAD. They aren't there for a fight, but for the killing. And assassins attack from behind, never from the front. At least this is what I thought.

-"Selina already does this if you don't damage her too much. (I.Haste)"
And why not before the battle? The reasons are above.

-"I'm not really a fan of BG2's Brach-PfMW-Breach-PfMW tactics. I prefer the BG1/IWD method of game play."
This is all well and fine, but please don' forget that this IS BG2, NOT BG1. Huge difference. It is a good thing that you prefer enemies to act "BG1 style", but this won't prevent PLAYERS to act "BG2"-style. And this is much more efficient. A pity, I know, but these are the pure facts.
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#36 aVENGER

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 03:01 AM

Right, the "hit-through-PFMW" was my fault. When I altered Grok to be a bit stronger, I mistakenly drop his right hand axe  and his hand was actually a 'normal' weapon. Shaaaaame... 


LOL! :D BTW, that is another one of the reasons why I discourage other people from editing my mods.

Right, and this means he won't use them at all. Against a high.level offensive party how long do you accept him to be above 90% HP? For a round perhaps.


Well, I figured with Grok being the main tank of the group, his priority should be healing himself. As for his Hit Points, well, seeing as how he is a lvl 19 Half-Orc Barbarian with 19 CON, he has 195 HP (maximum dice rolled) plus, when he uses his Barbarian Rage his CON rises to 23 and his HP go up to 205. I just checked and noticed that his critical HEALING threshold lies by 160 HP so that's when he stops using other potions. Also, he will only use his Rages when his STR is below 22 but he always drinks a potion of Storm Giant Strength at the beginning so...

Since this IS an ambush, I don't see any sense in this. If this wobe a stand-up fight, then ok, but, these are rogues, who wan't the party DEAD. They aren't there for a fight, but for the killing. And assassins attack from behind, never from the front. At least this is what I thought


Good point. However, a multiple round lasting prep sequence would be pretty boring to watch I reckon (the current one lasts two rounds). It could, of course, be significantly shortened by employing 'ReallyForcedSpells' but as I already noted, that's just not my cup of tea :)

About the frontal backstab attacks - unfortunately that is another Infinity Engine limitation, I could find no way to instruct my characters to attack from behind via scripting. BTW, this behavior can be witnessed on any other BG2 opponents which employ backstab, for example the Rune Assassins from the Skinner quest in the Bridge District.

This is all well and fine, but please don't forget that this IS BG2, NOT BG1. Huge difference. It is a good thing that you prefer enemies to act "BG1 style", but this won't prevent PLAYERS to act "BG2"-style. And this is much more efficient


I don't expect players to restrain themselves from using such tactics, I just don't want my characters to use them, at least not in the default version of the encounter. As I already mentioned earlier, I might create a more difficult version of the encounter for higher difficulty settings and/or higher level parties, but don't count on that happening too soon. I'm actually planning a longer break from active modding if revision 2.31 proves more or less bug free. Don't let that discourage you from making further comments though, I'll still browse the forums and check on any suggestions offered to me, I simply won't be doing any time consuming work until I get some more free time seing how my university's main exam season is already in progress...

#37 -Guest-

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 05:11 AM

it seems you misunderstand it. the party attacks the ps party. they know when the pc is coming so they are buffing before they are attacking. to simulate this use reallyforcespell. you would do the same, wouldnt you? you buff yourself up before a hard fighht is about to take place.

#38 aVENGER

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 06:18 AM

Note that the player's party is already penalized by not being able to prepare for the encounter. Any pre-cast spells will expire upon entering the area. As for the ReallyForcedSpells, I already said that I dislike them greatly, but I may create a better prep sequence on the higher difficulty settings (HARD and IMPOSSIBLE) but most certainly not in the near future.

#39 aVENGER

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 08:34 PM

Small Update:

It seams that I have accidentally included some of the older AI scripts for the Chosen of Cyric Encounter when I was uploading v2.31 yesterday :( Sorry about that, the enhanced scripts are now correctly placed. If you intend to test the encounter download the newly repaired v2.31 archive.

#40 Littiz

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Posted 20 April 2003 - 12:57 AM

Another good mod I missed so far :unsure:

EXCELLENT job! I tried it, read all the changes you've done...
Really, I love such attention to the details.
Now I'm almost willing to play a thief or a bard! :lol:

This will be part of my standard installation from now on!
Hope you'll have the time to complete version 3! :)

EDIT: maybe adding a skip to the Chosen of Cyric starting sequence?
You know, for when you have tried it too many times (likely) :P
Ever forward, my darling wind...