12 replies to this topic

[Tieflingz]

Meepo, without doubt, is one of the most exotic and interesting companion choices to have for Classic Adventures.

Sadly the continuation of the story/quest for kobold tribe will not allow the player to keep him, which was perhaps the original intention for Meepo in the classic Sunless Citadel settings.

D&D Fight Club: Meepo the Kobold Dragon-Keeper

He almost got his crowned title for the NPC! But nay, guess yet another exotic beat the poor kobold after all that he has been through

In Robert Wiese's setting, Meepo became Sorcerer/Wereflashraker instead of the original Fighter. Given Meepo began to develop his latent magical abilities after escaping from the Adventurers' wrath in Sunless Citadel, perhaps a later encounter could be done for Meepo to either face the adventurers once again or join them in their adventuring? (If Adventurers helped and spared the tribe's life that is)

Doesn't have to be Fighter Dual Mage or Sorcerer and given the ability to shapeshift, but I think the story given is interesting and continuable let alone Meepo is the only Kobold you can have in CA!

Original Artwork (Asked for permission, no reply yet)

Attached Files

•  MeepoBeta.bmp   342.83K   621 downloads

[Jarno Mikkola]

Doesn't have to be Fighter Dual Mage or Sorcerer and given the ability to shapeshift, but I think the story given is interesting and continuable let alone Meepo is the only Kobold you can have in CA!

Unfortunately, there is no way one can dual a Fighter to a Sorcerer. But then again the Meepo is not 'actual Fighter', as he has none standard save throws(+4 bonus), less hit points that he should(6 instead of standard fighter 10)... but I could see a special kit(Bard kit) made just for Meepo that could allow him to be some sort of caster later, that would have the same effects as the 'canon one' if there is one. And the Meepo doesn't need to be the same Meepo even.
Now, if only someone could make a small_wyvern_kobold-rider animation, it would be perfect(although a lot of work).
Wyvern cause it's small enough, and still believable enough for the kobold to control it, and the kobold can still call it 'Dragon'.

[leahnkain]

You are welcome to make a mini mod, just don't expect Meepo to go core. The key problem with Meepo is he would be killed in any town because he is essentially a monster. I know many of the NPC's like Althon or Icar would cut him down. Aleigha as well. Basically most fighters in the group who are used to killing kobolds would not want him to remain in the group very long. Even Paraway expresses his dislike for kobolds immediately. That is why he has stayed where he is. (I have to say the picture you chose well...doesn't really match up with the quality of CA art. I would suggest that if you do choose to make your on optional mod to please use the request forums to at least get a good picture.(Sorry I am really picky about the art, I have drawn the lineart for many of the NPC's)

Original Artwork (Asked for permission, no reply yet)

I do ask one small favor, please do not ask to use a portrait using Classic Adventures name. It would be for your own purposes. If we need a portrait a) I will either drawn the lineart and beg an artist to color it or b) beg an artist whom I trust to do both the lineart and the coloring. c) temporarily ask permission to borrow a picture then do either a or b.

Edited by leahnkain, 03 January 2010 - 07:15 AM.

[Tieflingz]

Unfortunately, there is no way one can dual a Fighter to a Sorcerer. But then again the Meepo is not 'actual Fighter', as he has none standard save throws(+4 bonus), less hit points that he should(6 instead of standard fighter 10)... but I could see a special kit(Bard kit) made just for Meepo that could allow him to be some sort of caster later, that would have the same effects as the 'canon one' if there is one. And the Meepo doesn't need to be the same Meepo even.
Now, if only someone could make a small_wyvern_kobold-rider animation, it would be perfect(although a lot of work).
Wyvern cause it's small enough, and still believable enough for the kobold to control it, and the kobold can still call it 'Dragon'.

Indeed, I meant more like 'fighter dual mage' or 'sorcerer with shapeshifting abilities', but now's not the time to debate my grammar failures!
Aye, perhaps a bard kit, but then there are pickpocket and song singing to be disabled, which leaves 2 spots useless... I'm thinking maybe custom mage kit with Thief THAC0 and 1d6 hp? Now to think of it, maybe Bard template is a better option...

You are welcome to make a mini mod, just don't expect Meepo to go core. The key problem with Meepo is he would be killed in any town because he is essentially a monster. I know many of the NPC's like Althon or Icar would cut him down. Aleigha as well. Basically most fighters in the group who are used to killing kobolds would not want him to remain in the group very long. Even Paraway expresses his dislike for kobolds immediately. That is why he has stayed where he is. (I have to say the picture you chose well...doesn't really match up with the quality of CA art. I would suggest that if you do choose to make your on optional mod to please use the request forums to at least get a good picture.(Sorry I am really picky about the art, I have drawn the lineart for many of the NPC's)

I can only say your dedication and understanding for your NPCs are amazing and good things to bear! Aye, they would perhaps cut down poor Meepo the second they saw him joining the group, yet (Althon, Icar, Aleigha, Paraway, and... who else?) 4/28 NPCs will react violently towards our exotic kobold companion. What of the others? Maybe they will turn a blind eye or even be glad to have his companionship.

But then I don't have the full understanding of yours and Celestine's NPCs, so I'm hesistant to even state "Dirbert and Shadow might like him!" If people think this is viable enough, would you be kind enough to give me certain pointers ? Who might like/be neutral/hate Meepo of all the NPCs in CA?

And of course, I only used 2 layers of coloring on the original black and white portrait, can't really expect it to be perfect. And kobolds don't exactly look like canines, would have to find a better art to go along with the CA portraits indeed.

Original Artwork (Asked for permission, no reply yet)

I do ask one small favor, please do not ask to use a portrait using Classic Adventures name. It would be for your own purposes. If we need a portrait a) I will either drawn the lineart and beg an artist to color it or b) beg an artist whom I trust to do both the lineart and the coloring. c) temporarily ask permission to borrow a picture then do either a or b.

Worry not, in the letter I wrote to the artist I only mentioned of the usage for a Baldur's Gate II Portrait Style D&D Kobold Fighter.
And the reason why I asked for permission would be when I post screenshots the portrait will perhaps be displayed in the future, and that's 'sort of' publishing it by some kind of means which I don't want to offend.

You are welcome to make a mini mod

Are you realy realy sure? I mean, I might exploit this line and make hundreds of NPC mods in dedication for CA !

Nah, I'm joining the army in few months, by then I only have the time to complete 0-1 mod. Then it's 1 year of saying farewell to the world before I'm off duty.


On the post script, I thank you guys for taking note of this small idea and willing to comment about it. My modding ability is now in between Novice and Apprentice I believe (That means Noob, between 0-25/100 in oblivion system), written (Not published) my first virgin mod using WeiDU for BGII, only the initial join dialogue and 2 banters with PC.

She's something like Artesia, but I still have much to learn, first step may be the hardest but definitely goes easier afterwards!

[Jarno Mikkola]

You are welcome to make a mini mod, just don't expect Meepo to go core.

Thanks...
But for totally install-ready-mods, I need more space in here SHS as the 512kb is not enough for 544kb's files where the WeiDU.exe is included.  Meepo.rar   1.8K   217 downloads Extract this to the game folder, copy the Setup-Classics051.exe to the same folder, and rename the new file as setup-Meepo.exe, and run it.

It will work as long as you have not yet been in the area where Meepo is found(tc0013). And you can use the 'template' freely, just notice that it's not at all finished, as the kit should get more skills etc when they level up, but the table(IJ#Meepo.2da) is almost clean for now.

The key problem with Meepo is he would be killed in any town because he is essentially a monster. I know many of the NPC's like Althon or Icar would cut him down. Aleigha as well.

Yeah, that's why the character should make a return later, when we see more of the Dragons.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 03 January 2010 - 10:30 AM.

[Sir BillyBob]

Mini-mods are always welcome. That is one of the reasons some areas are not completely detailed (and my laziness). There should be plenty of spots where a players thinks they could add to the story. Just look at the work the BG1-NPC mod has done. Our only issue is if the character or plot needs to continue past our current status of the mod. I don't want to see mods that drop off at Selgaunt and then we can't contact the modder for later continuation. It would leave that mod lacking.

As for Meepo, the party has probably already fought wandering kobolds before they got to the point of meeting him. So would they really want a kobold joining?

Shadow - grew up in Zhentril Keep and would have witnessed kobolds being slaves, sacrifices, and probably used as food for orcs and other creatures. I doubt she would think highly of him.
Dirbert - a ranger who would have possibly hunted kobolds that got too close to town. Maybe he wouldn't care one way or the other about Meepo joining.
Rurik - a dwarf. Nuf said. Kobolds, goblins, and other such creatures are just another bug to smash. Though an intelligent kobold may interest him.
Chaarna - she shouldn't be able to meet him. You would have to be cheating for this to happen.
Paraway - he says his part. Kobolds can't be trusted.
Erky - may not care. He would hate goblins because of his capture. But kobolds wouldn't have done anything bad to him.

[Tieflingz]

Are you realy realy sure?

really really**
My own joke just backfired on me.. But moving on!

It will work as long as you have not yet been in the area where Meepo is found(tc0013). And you can use the 'template' freely, just notice that it's not at all finished, as the kit should get more skills etc when they level up, but the table(IJ#Meepo.2da) is almost clean for now.

The key problem with Meepo is he would be killed in any town because he is essentially a monster. I know many of the NPC's like Althon or Icar would cut him down. Aleigha as well.

Yeah, that's why the character should make a return later, when we see more of the Dragons.

Worry not, friend, nothing beats a live tutorial given with instructions inside a template mod! My great appreciation with all the notes you written inside the .tp2 file, I've been through certain Kit creation guides and I can only say your template has been the most helpful since!

Should make a return later indeed, but another question to go along is when, where, and how strong should he be? Certainly not in between Sunless Citadel and Saltmarsh, perhaps in the wilderness and to Slavery/Westgate? An ambush or such can make Meepo to either attack or join the PC shortly after informed by Captain of Saltmarsh. (Catharandamus and Althon will be possibly in group, but of course, players can also have the choice of having Aesdale and Blush, will they like/turn a blind eye on Meepo?)

Now to think of it.. Dragons... perhaps save Meepo from becoming dinner? eh.... Not sure when's that, but don't want to spoil everything for everyone including myself.

Mini-mods are always welcome. That is one of the reasons some areas are not completely detailed (and my laziness). There should be plenty of spots where a players thinks they could add to the story. Just look at the work the BG1-NPC mod has done. Our only issue is if the character or plot needs to continue past our current status of the mod. I don't want to see mods that drop off at Selgaunt and then we can't contact the modder for later continuation. It would leave that mod lacking.

As for Meepo, the party has probably already fought wandering kobolds before they got to the point of meeting him. So would they really want a kobold joining?

More light has been shed upon the approval of such NPC able-or-not to join the PC at all, but what if Meepo is joined after certain point, say, after you get Chaarna back? After slavery and Westgate and such, that is. (Unable to play through CA 0.51 even with CLUA due to the crashing bug 'possibly' caused by foreign OS, I don't know what goes on afterwards, sorry)

As Leahnkain has stated, Meepo would not be welcome to most cities, and that include Selgaunt, in which my guess will be shortly around after Westgate?..

But of course, that can be perhaps solved with a bit tolerance of the guards, say.. They force Meepo to leave the party and be warded under their presence at the gate while the PC do their biddings in town. PC can pick up Meepo later when they are ready to leave.

Indeed, no mods should be started without serious consideration and consistent details (Or sometimes they should in sparking ideas for mods.. but not in this case I suppose)

Few questions I had in mind:
Portrait,
Meepo has a portrait of his race similiar to canines, hairy and with a snout, while the pictures/details of kobolds I googled/wikied were more of far kins of Dragon like with no fur and hard skins, a bit lizard-like heads. How should he be described/looking like?

Players,
Do people like Meepo enough to keep him and willing to go through troubles to explain to the city authorities why they have him in party to make the mod consistent and sensible? Or he's only good enough for the short period he's to join at Sunless Citadel or they might get tiresome of Meepo later on (I know that I'm not)?

Time,
I don't know how long will a NPC mod take, say, given at least 1 banter to each NPCs that like/neutral to/hate him (Maybe if more than half, 3, the party hates Kobolds, Meepo will turn hostile in his encounter no matter what? or kicked out if party has made changes), detailed Biographies, stories, interjections, quests, progress with CA versions, and a noob modder like me with almost no experience on everything? Unless the author is someone else.. *looks at Jarno and looks away * Jk, don't want to bother Jarno too much with him having much going-on already I suppose..

Once my uhh... Army type ticket? One that I get to select randomly if I get Navy, Marine, or Airforce, then it'll be almost certain that one month later I'm sent to the army.. It's mandatory in Taiwan like certain other countries, so aye, leaving a mod unfinished is irresponsible and undutiful.

Would be a nice learning experience to have, though. Gots to go take a shower and sleep, got more cars to fix the next morning! Just got my bonus of 6000 NT (Around 175$ I believe) today and ready to save it to my college/plane ticket fund . Good night.

Edited by Tieflingz, 05 January 2010 - 04:32 AM.

[Solar's Harper]

But of course, that can be perhaps solved with a bit tolerance of the guards, say.. They force Meepo to leave the party and be warded under their presence at the gate while the PC do their biddings in town. PC can pick up Meepo later when they are ready to leave.

Hmm, unlikely scenario, yet it could happen if absolutely necessary, albeit with artifical consequences(looks @ NWN). The problem a player will have to deal with is that unlike the soft merchants of Amn, Sembian city-dwellers are not known for being overly tolerant of the demi-human races, and especially not so of the creatures that are consistently monsters to human society in general; a result of generations of propaganda and skirmishes with both.

Rural communities too would be fairly unwelcoming to a kobold, especially areas that are close to kobold holdings. And since the two are typically fairly tightly-knitted to each other, it would be hard for Meepo to go to any civilized locale without an angry mob waiting to burn him into reptile stew, yet not impossible, and the presence of humans and demi-humans (although it is somewhat iffy for elves) travelling with him would improve his chances... provided he never strays.

Westgate on the other hand is very similar to Luskan, in that it accepts and allows almost anything... for the right price.

The possibility of recruiting Meepo and having him travel with the player is feasible, yet if one wants to keep it as realistic as possible, it will be wrought with many situations that could lead to an otherwise very rocky, unstable road.
Cutting that may make the job easier, if less environmental.

[leahnkain]

At best I would consider Myth Drannor an optional point for Meepo to return. Unfortunately I could clearly see Althon wanting him dead, he would not want to travel with a Kobold. Rilithar would not travel with such a vile creature. Vildamyr wouldn't be caught dead near the thing. The list goes on...I would think NPC's like Blush would flat out leave the group. Remember he is an evil little monster. That would leave very few NPC's he could be with. Classic Adventures is based on 1st and 2nd edition. I cannot see any group wanted to keep Meepo unless they never plan on entering a town. I could suggest due to your limited time a mini mod where he joins for Myth Drannor. Even then he is too weak to survive and it is hard to justify Ilewtharyn recommending him to the group. I am confident the slavers would outright kill him. You would need pretty good reasons for him to actually be desirable for any of the main NPC's to not kill him outright. Just off the top of my head Cath, maybe Kessa, possibly Buranta and a small chance Grozhar are the only NPC's that would be ok around him for an extended period. The player would be better off to have a fairy dragon as a traveling companion. (ex: Nympkin the NG fairy dragon. He could talk interact and not be killed on sight, he is also unique.)

Edited by leahnkain, 05 January 2010 - 06:58 AM.

[Sam.]

Do people like Meepo enough to keep him and willing to go through troubles to explain to the city authorities why they have him in party to make the mod consistent and sensible?

Yes.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Just to let you know, I am planing the next stage of the mini-mod... on the base of what I can now do, and so far it seems to cover a few new features, so I'll be posting it sometime.

And you can use the 'template' freely, just notice that it's not at all finished, as the kit should get more skills etc when they level up, but the table(IJ#Meepo.2da) is almost clean for now.

Worry not, friend, nothing beats a live tutorial given with instructions inside a template mod! My great appreciation with all the notes you written inside the .tp2 file, I've been through certain Kit creation guides and I can only say your template has been the most helpful since!

Well, the notes were not all mine originally, as I use them from a template myself... yes, this is already my 4th idea and attempt to make a concrete Kit.

What comes to the new/next location, I have a possible solution...

Spoiler

and I am not going to tell it to you.

*looks at Jarno and looks away

Don't look away. Come, see the darkside. PM if you wish to throw ideas.

[Tieflingz]

Don't look away. Come, see the darkside. PM if you wish to throw ideas.

*Looking into the Imp as mind slowly drifted away, with pupils turned blank and dull, spoken with no pitch*
"Yes, Master"

What comes to the new/next location, I have a possible solution...

Spoiler

and I am not going to tell it to you.

You... you... you Imp!

Ah ha ha, I just wished that you could make Meepo the Kobold Dragon-Keeper truely possible and do-able for those (Including me) that wished to keep Meepo on their journeys with reasonable... reasonable reason? Eh... My vocab fails here,

Anyhow, I've given thoughts about what Leahnkain said, the storyline of CA switches in between the wilderness, cities, and dungeons too often, and to make all these 'makes sense' to the situation will require tons of coding and scripts (Would the whole result worth the time if Meepo can't be of use half the time? During cities and such that is).

I guess in the end Meepo is rather hard to become a 'real' joinable-NPC, but since I still can't let go of him this easily, (Just a train of thought at this moment, please still make him a joinable one if possible though!)

Make Meepo the Encounter-style NPC, 2 paths

First encounter would be in Sunless citadel, whether the PC decides to slaughter the kobolds or not, Meepo will survive (If carnage) or leave the clan (For certain reason) out into the wilderness. Afterwards, the decision made by PC will either get Meepo attacking and fleeing from PC over and over again, or have Meepo join the party and get 'kicked' out certain point every city scene

It's late and I think I'll type them into details with much better grammar and paragraph sortings, sorry for the quickie!

[Sir BillyBob]

Meepo is the size of a halfling, so in theory, a cloak covering his body might let him get away with wandering around in towns. If it isn't equiped, the town guards could hunt him down if seen.

Kobolds have gone through a transition in the D&D world. In the old days (when I played), kobolds were warm-blooded dog-like creatures. In later versions of D&D, they became reptilian and are actually part of the dragon family (kind of like that one crazy family member we all have and try to avoid). The Sunless Citadel is a newer mod and so the kobold community there is reptilian. They think they are the decendents of the great dragons and dragon priests of the Citadel before the war which sunk it into the ground.

I left the kobold characters with the 3d Ed of their existance even though the mod we have created is more 1st Ed. At the time, Meepo wasn't even joinable. This is one of many evolutions to this mod over the years.

As for the buggy version of 0.51, the older .50 game carries you all the way to Selgaunt. .51 has little to add to that part of the story. So you could install the older version to get a taste of the larger cities. Hopefully but the next release, we will figure out this animation problem.