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#1081 Sam.

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 02:19 AM

Learned that Hexxat is apparently romanceable.
You can blame me -- at least in part -- for that. ;) I wrote a lot of that romance. 

Cool :) . What's her type?

Edited by Sam., 18 November 2013 - 02:19 AM.

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#1082 Kaeloree

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 02:26 AM

Women :) We didn't add any racial or alignment restrictions to the new romances.



#1083 Eleima

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:25 AM

Thanks, K, that's good to know.  :D  I'll definitely try the new good guys when I get around to BG2EE (ack, the pile!!  It loooms!).


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#1084 Aranthys

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:58 AM

Well, what I kinda dislike is the fact that pretty much everything is romanceable.

Hell, I like the fact that most of my team wasn't romanceable and was just there as a companion... but now, with all these new characters, I feel like i'm getting flooded with lovetalks.

 

And it sucks, kinda  :(



#1085 Almateria

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:42 PM

Tempest do you by any chance post elsewhere as Cythereal? Because I feel that I've argued about why dicking a vampire isn't necrophilia already



#1086 Tempest

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

Nope. Doesn't surprise me, though, because that's exactly what dicking a vampire is. Kinda hard to get around "explodes if a high-level good or neutral cleric turns on their anti-dead-stuff power."


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#1087 Almateria

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:09 PM

Can't agree. Vampires have always been all about seduction and sexuality and it never faded out so people wanting to bone one will be in majority

 

e: or in this case, scissor


Edited by Almateria, 19 November 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#1088 Tempest

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:18 PM

If your significant other is vaporized by effects designed to destroy zombies and skeletons, it's necrophilia. There is no room for debate and I don't know why you brought it up again - either you are alive, or you are not. Vampires are not. Hexxat is no more alive than a golem. I agree that necrophilia appears to be in vogue, however, so let's not discuss this further.


Edited by Tempest, 19 November 2013 - 06:20 PM.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#1089 DavidWallace

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:19 AM

If your significant other is vaporized by effects designed to destroy zombies and skeletons, it's necrophilia.
There's your solution, Liam - put opcode 297 on Hexxat and call it a day. (Seriously, defining a supposedly morally relevant category by means of its vulnerability to spell-like abilities looks hard to justify.)
 
either you are alive, or you are not. Vampires are not.

Likewise, either you are white or you are not; either you are left-handed or you are not; either you are male or you are not.* In no case does that itself have any particular bearing on the morality of sexual relations with someone having or lacking the attribute. What's needed is a further argument as to why the attribute is morally relevant. In the case of necrophilia in the real world, the argument is deeply tied up with the fact that corpses are inanimate objects. That's not the case for vampires. I can see an argument based on the idea that a vampire's body is the corpse of another -deceased - person, and that it's maltreating that person to sleep with their vampire successor, but that's going to turn on quite subtle and setting-specific questions about the continuity relation between someone's pre- and post-vampiric state. I don't believe D&D per se offers any particular answer to those questions and in any case they have little or nothing to do with the generic "you are not alive" objection.
 
 
Hexxat is no more alive than a golem.

And "golem" is the fantasy name for "robot" or "android", and there is a pretty extensive literature in fact and fiction about the rights and wrongs of various behaviours towards robots; the fairly clear lesson from that literature seems to be that if a robot is as intelligent as a human, treating them fundamentally differently from humans is ethically extremely dubious.

*and in all those categories you might argue for grey areas - just as in the case of life/death - in the real world, let alone in a high-fantasy RPG setting.

#1090 Almateria

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:24 AM

Disagree! Golems are specifically mindless constructs, while vampire are beings of actual intelligence :v

 

Also dude I could probably die after eating rat poison, but that doesn't make me a rat



#1091 DavidWallace

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:07 AM

Disagree! Golems are specifically mindless constructs, while vampire are beings of actual intelligence :v
That's what the "if a robot is as intelligent as a human" clause is doing in my post. What makes actual golems ethically count as non-persons is their lack of intelligence, not their lack of "aliveness".

#1092 Tempest

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:02 AM

I am done arguing about this. Vampires are undead creatures - soulless corpses animated by negative energy, and I cannot in good conscience purchase a game that endorses necrophilia.


Edited by Tempest, 20 November 2013 - 08:04 AM.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#1093 Aranthys

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:53 AM

I am done arguing about this. Vampires are undead creatures - soulless corpses animated by negative energy, and I cannot in good conscience purchase a game that endorses necrophilia.

The funniest thing about this comment is that there not a single person that does the Hexxat romance while thinking "HELL YEAH I JUST NAILED THAT CORPSE, Go, necrophilia, go ! ... Too bad she's still moving, I prefer cold meat".



#1094 Tempest

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:06 AM

I am done arguing about this. Vampires are undead creatures - soulless corpses animated by negative energy, and I cannot in good conscience purchase a game that endorses necrophilia.

The funniest thing about this comment is that there not a single person that does the Hexxat romance while thinking "HELL YEAH I JUST NAILED THAT CORPSE, Go, necrophilia, go ! ... Too bad she's still moving, I prefer cold meat".

 

By all means, have your cake and suck its blood, too. You'll have to forgive me for pointing out that vampires are undead despite all efforts by writers and fans to ignore that fact. That particular feat of cognitive dissonance is beyond my ability.


"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#1095 Galsic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:26 AM

I think David Wallace's posts pretty well explain why Tempest's application of necrophilia is wrong, but since he's "done arguing about" it, I can only hope he isn't insinuating that those who do choose to pursue Hexxat romantically (as well as those who wrote her and incorporated her into the game) are all , at some level or another, sick, corpse-loving perverts.  Cuz that's (potentially) A LOT of people who, I'm pretty sure, are focused on the character as an ACTIVE individual with an engaging personality, not the whole corpse thing : / .

 

I'm pretty sure I'll get the game at some point, but since I already have two other versions of the game, a version that apparently still needs patching is not especially high on my list of things to get.  As for Hexxat, I don't think I could role-play a PC who could even trust a vampire, much less try to romance one.


Edited by Galsic, 20 November 2013 - 10:43 AM.

(I like parentheses.)

#1096 DavidWallace

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

I am done arguing about this. Vampires are undead creatures - soulless corpses animated by negative energy, and I cannot in good conscience purchase a game that endorses necrophilia.

Worry not! As long as we are considering this by dictionary definitions rather than actual argument:

- "undead" means inter alia "not dead"
- "necrophilia" means "a desire to have sex with the dead".

Problem averted.

Feel free to give an actual argument as to why sex with sentient beings whose bodies are formerly the bodies of humans is wrong. I can see a number of ways in which such an argument can be constructed, but we haven't actually had one yet.

#1097 Tempest

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:18 PM

I am done arguing about this. Vampires are undead creatures - soulless corpses animated by negative energy, and I cannot in good conscience purchase a game that endorses necrophilia.

Worry not! As long as we are considering this by dictionary definitions rather than actual argument:

- "undead" means inter alia "not dead"
- "necrophilia" means "a desire to have sex with the dead".

Problem averted.

Feel free to give an actual argument as to why sex with sentient beings whose bodies are formerly the bodies of humans is wrong. I can see a number of ways in which such an argument can be constructed, but we haven't actually had one yet.

 

Just checking: you're actually arguing that zombies, liches, shadows, ghouls, skeletons, ghosts, wraiths, and flesh golems aren't dead?


Edited by Tempest, 20 November 2013 - 03:20 PM.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#1098 Kaeloree

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:42 PM

Aaand I think that's about enough of that, everybody's made their points. Back on topic, please. 



#1099 Almateria

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:51 PM

Okay.

BG2EE is bad and Toster should be ashamed of shipping such a bad product

again.



#1100 Eleima

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:08 PM

I'm curious, Almateria, so I'll bite.  What didn't you like?  How long did you play?  How different is it from the vanilla game?

And most importantly, does anyone know if the Dungeon Be Gone mod will work with the BG2EE ? ;)


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