216 replies to this topic

[Kish]

Quote

It is unwise to think of Imoen as a true sister of the Protagonist as they are related neither by:
Affinity - Someone who is related by marriage; or
Consanguinity - Someone who is related by blood. This is ignored because it is assumed Bhaal was not in the Possession of the same being or individual, when he impregnated the mothers of both the Protagonist and Imoen.

Lovely passive voice--"is ignored","is assumed". You are presenting your opinion as if it were a fact--ironically, one sentence after demanding those who consider an Imoen Romance immoral not do that. There is, in fact, no reason to assume Bhaal possessed an existing corporeal entity at all. We know all the gods were required to possess (mostly human) avatars in the Time of Troubles, but we also know that Bhaal "walked the Realms before he was made to". He had the power to create avatars for himself. His avatars possessed some quality that permitted them to create Bhaalspawn offspring, who were conspicuously not merely children of their mothers and/or possessed biological fathers (they had Bhaalspawn powers). Quitch's answer to my question in the Ask Imoen thread accurately characterized Imoen: Her reaction to CharName making a pass at her would be one of shock, revulsion, and horror.

[Renmauzo]

Except that should the protagonist be an elf, there is no way he and Imoen could share the same blood; assuming that the father (bhaal) assumed a faerunian race and all the qualities therein. And if he didnt, and simply created babies from his immortal essence and a mortal, then they are half siblings at best with the only link being divine blood- wich is in turn taken care of by the end of ToB.

[Littiz]

It would be stupid if Immie would romance everybody,
in every situation and every game.
But the opposite would be stupid as well.

There's ground for many interpretations and possible outcomes.
Maybe the only thing I'd leave OUT of the mod is the possibility
of a lesbian love with the PC, this would be really
out of character IMHO

[Althernai]

Kish, on Oct 17 2002, 06:44 AM, said:

Quitch's answer to my question in the Ask Imoen thread accurately characterized Imoen: Her reaction to CharName making a pass at her would be one of shock, revulsion, and horror.

I completely agree with you there - but we should not forget whom we are dealing with. The PC can easily have a Cha, Int and Wis at or above the limits of what is possible for humans (or mortals in general). Say you put on the Ring of Human Influence - you instantaneosly become as charismatic as any human we know of on Earth. Or, if you start BG1 with Cha 16, you can have 19 by the time you are through with WK. Either way, you would be extremely persuasive - you could easily cause people to do things against their better judgement. Add to that a good Wis or Int (customary for clerics and mages - plus, there are many ways to increase your Wis), and you have a character who will be able to persuade most human beings to walk barefoot into hell and rejoice while doing it.

Quote

Except that should the protagonist be an elf, there is no way he and Imoen could share the same blood

You really should read that thread - we've been over this point before.

[Renmauzo]

Quote

Quitch's answer to my question in the Ask Imoen thread accurately characterized Imoen: Her reaction to CharName making a pass at her would be one of shock, revulsion, and horror.

Quote

I completely agree with you there

While Im glad you two are in agreeance, your assertations seem to be based on faulty logic. To rule out the possibility of a relationship based on the unsubstantiated opinions of a few would be unwise at best.

Quote

You really should read that thread - we've been over this point before.

Yes, I have been over it. However if Kish is going to bring up points from that thread im obligated to refute them. The fact is, it is conjecture at best that Imoen and the PC share the same blood, the only sure thing we know is their divine link.

[LSWSjr]

[quote name='Kish' date='Oct 17 2002, 06:44 AM'][QUOTE]
Her reaction to CharName making a pass at her would be one of shock, revulsion, and horror.[/QUOTE]
As I said before, the way to go about this part towards a more intimate relationship, would not be have either make a pass at the other.

It would involve the Protagonist and Imoen having it develop over a time, possibly without even trying to do so or knowing that they are doing it.

I am not talking about a straight out "Imoen I think your sexy, so now will you screw me?", its not about that nor should it ever be.

It should be something the grows from the bond the characters have and their feelings that are to grow between them, not a clump of cheesy pick up lines and flirting.

Imoen would have a reaction of what you stated to a pass made at her by the Protagonist, she feels a strong sibbling bond with the Protagonist and would never think along those lines.

Although I have carried out many Imoen romances as stated earlier, and have found that the most fulfilling and well carried out ones, usually involve Imoen and the PC relising this more that family/friends bond over time, usually with much 'soul searching' and 'but it wrong' type events.

The relationship never has to end in sex, it could end in simply acknowledging their feelings for each other and like in the end of the BG2:SoA Aerie romance, share moments together and sleep together in a 'no-sex included' manner. With or without showing their affections to others, through hand holding, cuddling or kissing.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications, Australia Signing Off

[Gospel]

Yay! :D

Agree, agree me! Meow! :)

[LSWSjr]

Gospel, oh great cat-like one.

What are your thoughts towards my views and ideas?

[Mael]

I think he already said he agrees whole-heartedly with your opinions. Because what you describe, is (I think) exactly what he wants.

[Gospel]

Yes sir! *purrs* :)

Cuddling and snuggling and ear licking and neck biting is much better! :) And CHARNAME could tell Immy kitty that he loves her more than anything! Lots and lots of times :)

That'd be great! :)

Greater than lots of stuff, yes... :)

[LSWSjr]

Mael, on Oct 18 2002, 02:34 PM, said:

I think he already said he agrees whole-heartedly with your opinions. Because what you describe, is (I think) exactly what he wants.

Good to hear, he like our local Gamers Guild and us here at LSWSjr Publications Australia, wish for somewhat the same things as I have stated and why the hell not.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications, Australia signing off.

[Littiz]

Gospel, on Oct 18 2002, 02:46 PM, said:

Yes sir! *purrs*

Cuddling and snuggling and ear licking and neck biting is much better! And CHARNAME could tell Immy kitty that he loves her more than anything! Lots and lots of times

That'd be great!

Greater than lots of stuff, yes...

Ehi, that's very sweet Gospel!

[Lord God Jinnai]

Problem is here most people are trying to put modern, scientific-worldly based morals in a middle-aged, fantasy world.

[Lord God Jinnai]

Littiz, on Oct 18 2002, 04:45 PM, said:

Gospel, on Oct 18 2002, 02:46 PM, said:

Yes sir! *purrs*

Cuddling and snuggling and ear licking and neck biting is much better! And CHARNAME could tell Immy kitty that he loves her more than anything! Lots and lots of times

That'd be great!

Greater than lots of stuff, yes...

Ehi, that's very sweet Gospel!

:ribit:

[Littiz]

You know Gospel, it seems we have much in common!
I bet you like girls with longish, fine hands

[Auvrin]

Quote

Problem is here most people are trying to put modern, scientific-worldly based morals in a middle-aged, fantasy world.

Eh.... If anything we developed MORE morals....See the thing is.. everything there is today, is existant in this setting in different forms.. It's just not spoken of. Slavery is none existant, yet it is in this time setting. Prostitution was not policed, and they even allowed the women/men to do so in taverns. Relationships between brother and sister, well I hate to say it but that's not a new one. It was existant, and in fact wasn't even frowned apon half as much as it is today. The whole myth system of all the gods were built up by human creation. That should tell you something about all the incest that took place. "Scientific-worldly based morals" Well.. I haven't seen anyone tossing computers or cell phones in so I don't see the problem... As for putting moral and scientific side by side.... No.. Science doesn't really have morals.

[Userunfriendly]

if indeed a romance is possible, and its entirely quitch's choice, i sorta think it should be based on the fact that the bonds between the pc and imoen are so strong and so all encompassing, that there is simply no room in each others hearts for anyone else....the bonds of love are so complete, in the end for physical love they simply turn to each other for love....

i mean the pc and immie are family, and they have both seen horror beyond imagination happening to their own lives, and they killed the only family each will have beyond each other, so at the end, when they realize they simply cant accept any lovers that will split them apart, they link.....and it might be very sad, but bhaal taint forever segregates them from all other people they meet...they are in essence their own race, and any other bonds they develop with other npcs are transitory and fleeting...so in the interest of story telling, this would be indeed a very very sad and tragic ending, when at the end they feel so alienated and apart from the rest of elven or human or whatever kind, that they reject any other relationship, because only each other can comprehend and ease the pain in their hearts.....

this would of course completely preclude the divine endings, as such a inducement of divine power is trivial compared to the fact in all the world, they only have each other.....

[Mael]

I, personally, think that's a very good idea UU.

[Userunfriendly]

thanks!!!!

the scene would play out like this...pc is in romance with a bioware npc, and near the end, say after yagashura, a dialog in which the pc can say something truely hurtful to the romance interest, but consistant...like the pc tries to reach out to the romance interest, to ask for reassurance and trust and comfort, but the npc is bewildered and more than a little scared, that the great hero of baldurs gate and athlanka can weep and cry like a child over something trivial, like seeing the corpse of a little dog or cat caught in the battles between bhaal spawn, and the dialog option will include a option to break the romance completely....

and only immie is not upset over this unexpected development, and the pc and immie realizes only they can understand how such a pillar of strength everyone depends on can break so completely over such a trivial matter...(this would not of course work with aerie) and they talk about the dog or cat they had in candlekeep, and played with all the time, and they begin to realize the bond the pc had with the ex romance interest really wasnt much of a bond, that the pc responded to the need of the npc and the npc simply could not comprehend the raw open gaping wound which was the pc's heart, how much it hurt and how deeply hard it was for them to kill saverok, and how they had to keep the joy they felt when they could restore saverok, hidden deeply from the rest of the party...to the entire world saverok was a monster, but to them he was family, and even though they could never trust him enough to allow him in, or despite his treacherous nature they allowed him into the party, they still realizes without each other they would have turned into saverok, so he is actually a smokey mirror for them....

then the pc and immie renews a secret vow they shared when they were kids, that of all the world only they could trust each other....and the rest of the party says cruel things about how hurtful the pc was to the love interest, viccy jahiera or anomen, and how in the end all bhaalspawn were just the same, born to be cruel, but they trust the pc anyway....

but the damage is done, and that night, the pc undergoes a terrible nightmare in which she/he kills off the entire party, but as the pc goes to immie, her words stop the pc, and they wake up, and the pc tells immie about the dream, and despite the fact the party and pc still trust each other as friends, only immie and pc can fully trust only each other....

soon afterwards, immie realizes all those months she saw the pc and romance interest loving each other opened up a gaping wound in her heart, and the pc finds out, and since he/she would do anything for her, kisses her gently and holds her close and they fall in love...

naturally the rest of the party does not understand, and express their revulsion and disgust, all of which brings the pc and immie even closer than before...its them against the world again, and if the world thinks they are vile and evil, well, they have each other...

and of the party, only saverok understands, and supports them, and he thinks of tomiko, his only true love, and he weeps too....

i really think gender should be a non factor too...both male and female should be allowed, and if no romance was active before all this happens, then its simpler, deep deep heartache and loniness should be enough to trigger it...

you guys like???

[The Wise Owl]

Its good except for maybe that part with sarevok weeping.He seems like the type that has a hard time showing what he feels.ex. Yells things like "DIE!" , "Feel my unholy wrath!" and threatens his fellow warriors with thier lives,then goes and buries his one true love.......