34 replies to this topic

[Kastagir]

Looks good here. I almost wish that hp would be recalculated at every level-up, but that would require enforcing max hp for NPCs, and not everyone would like that.

[Ascension64]

OK, summary for non-obvious proficiencies is below. I took most of your suggestions, but modified others. I know this is going to be very subjective and open to debate.

• Ajantis: blunt -> swordshield (extra prof), bow -> longbow (fighter), smallsword -> bastardsword (can't have > 2 stars in BG1, kept bastardsword for consistency)
  
• Alora: bow -> shortbow (thief), missile -> sling (halfling)
  
• Branwen: Level 5 2 profs -> 3 profs, blunt -> warhammer (Tempus), missile -> sling (only missile allowed), swordshield (extra prof)
  
• Coran: bow -> longbow (fighter, elf)
  
• Dynaheir: missile -> dart (=Edwin)
  
• Edwin: keep dart, though BG2 consistency would be dagger (keep BG1 consistency)
  
• Eldoth: bow -> shortbow (personal pref)
  
• Garrick: missile -> singleweapon (extra prof)
  
• Imoen: blunt -> dagger (BG2 consistency)
  
• Jaheira: smallsword -> scimitar (BG2 consistency)
  
• Kagain: blunt -> singleweapon (extra prof), missile -> xbow (dwarf)
  
• Khalid: axe -> swordshield (extra prof)
  
• Minsc: spike/smalls -> mace (BG2 consistency), axe/bow -> longbow (BG2 consistency)
  
• Montaron: missile -> sling (halfling), Level 5/6 6 profs -> 5 profs
  
• Quayle: largesword/blunt -> qstaff (cleric/mage)
  
• Safana: missile -> sling (personal pref), spear -> singleweapon (extra prof)
  
• Shar-teel: smallsword -> 2handed (extra prof)
  
• Skie: missile -> singleweapon (extra prof)
  
• Tiax: spike -> swordshield (extra prof)
  
• Viconia: spike -> warhammer (BG2 consistency), missile -> sling (BG2 consistency)
  
• Xan: smallsword -> dagger (only smallsword available), missile -> dart (elf)
  
• Xzar: missile -> qstaff (BG2 Xzar wields qstaff)
  
• Yeslick: blunt -> warhammer (dwarf), missile -> sling, spike -> warhammer (can't have > 2 stars in BG1, kept warhammer for consistency)

[Miloch]

Quayle getting quarterstaff is something I thought poorly implemented in BGT originally. He clearly has a one-handed spiked weapon in BG1. The only time "blunt" shows up at all is on his L6 CRE. ("Large swords" showing up on his L4 CRE isn't any better, since he can't even use them.) As a cleric/mage, he can use shields (though not, obviously, with a quarterstaff). For what it's worth, even his BG2 CRE has a flail, not that he can use it in BG2 either.

Any reason why sling is your "personal preference" for Safana? I always give her the Light Crossbow of Speed you can buy from Taerom, which is probably better than even a sling +3 (certainly hits harder anyway). Plus, a lot of your NPCs had slings (and now darts apparently) and only Kagain has crossbow that I can see. The "missile" proficiency in BG1, of course, allowed you to use any of those.

You make Xzar consistent with BG2 but not Edwin? Xzar isn't even joinable in BG2, is he?

I don't see a whole lot else to quibble about.

[Kastagir]

OK, summary for non-obvious proficiencies is below. I took most of your suggestions, but modified others. I know this is going to be very subjective and open to debate.

• Ajantis: blunt -> swordshield (extra prof), bow -> longbow (fighter), smallsword -> bastardsword (can't have > 2 stars in BG1, kept bastardsword for consistency)
  
• Alora: bow -> shortbow (thief), missile -> sling (halfling)
  
• Branwen: Level 5 2 profs -> 3 profs, blunt -> warhammer (Tempus), missile -> sling (only missile allowed), swordshield (extra prof)
  
• Coran: bow -> longbow (fighter, elf)
  
• Dynaheir: missile -> dart (=Edwin)
  
• Edwin: keep dart, though BG2 consistency would be dagger (keep BG1 consistency)
  
• Eldoth: bow -> shortbow (personal pref)
  
• Garrick: missile -> singleweapon (extra prof)
  
• Imoen: blunt -> dagger (BG2 consistency)
  
• Jaheira: smallsword -> scimitar (BG2 consistency)
  
• Kagain: blunt -> singleweapon (extra prof), missile -> xbow (dwarf)
  
• Khalid: axe -> swordshield (extra prof)
  
• Minsc: spike/smalls -> mace (BG2 consistency), axe/bow -> longbow (BG2 consistency)
  
• Montaron: missile -> sling (halfling), Level 5/6 6 profs -> 5 profs
  
• Quayle: largesword/blunt -> qstaff (cleric/mage)
  
• Safana: missile -> sling (personal pref), spear -> singleweapon (extra prof)
  
• Shar-teel: smallsword -> 2handed (extra prof)
  
• Skie: missile -> singleweapon (extra prof)
  
• Tiax: spike -> swordshield (extra prof)
  
• Viconia: spike -> warhammer (BG2 consistency), missile -> sling (BG2 consistency)
  
• Xan: smallsword -> dagger (only smallsword available), missile -> dart (elf)
  
• Xzar: missile -> qstaff (BG2 Xzar wields qstaff)
  
• Yeslick: blunt -> warhammer (dwarf), missile -> sling, spike -> warhammer (can't have > 2 stars in BG1, kept warhammer for consistency)

Quale: If he had a flail in BG1 and is now too weak to wield it, I would think a club would make more sense than quarterstaff. Clubs have a very low strength requirement and this would preserve the 1h blunt preference.

Shar-teel: She should have Longsword proficiency since she's equipped with a longsword in BG1. I think two-handed sword is incorrect here. Extra proficiencies should probably go toward increasing the longsword proficiency since she's a pure fighter. If instead you meant two-handed weapon style, that doesn't make sense with longsword either, so perhaps single weapon, two weapon or sword and shield style would be more appropriate.

[Miloch]

Quale: If he had a flail in BG1 and is now too weak to wield it, I would think a club would make more sense than quarterstaff.

It makes (marginally) more sense than a quarterstaff, but 1h spiked is what he has (which means flail or morningstar) not 1h blunt.

Shar-teel: She should have Longsword proficiency since she's equipped with a longsword in BG1.

I would've assumed this too, but when I went through A64's assignments, it turns out she only gets a longsword if you get her L2 CRE. Her L4 and L6 CREs get the two-handed sword, so that seems "more consistent." Plus, it strikes me as a bit more in-character for her, and she can certainly pull off a 2H sword with 18/58 STR.

[Kastagir]

When the different level CREs are so inconsistent, it's going to be difficult to find a mix that works for everyone, but that being said these changes make sense to me. It's certainly an improvement over the existing set.

[Ascension64]

Quayle getting quarterstaff is something I thought poorly implemented in BGT originally. He clearly has a one-handed spiked weapon in BG1. The only time "blunt" shows up at all is on his L6 CRE. ("Large swords" showing up on his L4 CRE isn't any better, since he can't even use them.) As a cleric/mage, he can use shields (though not, obviously, with a quarterstaff). For what it's worth, even his BG2 CRE has a flail, not that he can use it in BG2 either.

Quale: If he had a flail in BG1 and is now too weak to wield it, I would think a club would make more sense than quarterstaff. Clubs have a very low strength requirement and this would preserve the 1h blunt preference.

I'm going to bump his STR to 13 to allow the use of flail here. That he has large sword and blunt at two different levels is certainly confusing. I think the qstaff ended up being a personal preference, but I'm happy with whatever seems more appropriate. His portrait might indicate he is leaning on a quarterstaff, but it could easily be a walking stick or the handle of a blunt/spiked weapon (with commiserations for the floor). What does a gnome like to use?

Shar-teel: She should have Longsword proficiency since she's equipped with a longsword in BG1. I think two-handed sword is incorrect here. Extra proficiencies should probably go toward increasing the longsword proficiency since she's a pure fighter. If instead you meant two-handed weapon style, that doesn't make sense with longsword either, so perhaps single weapon, two weapon or sword and shield style would be more appropriate.

It seems 'more consistent' since Shar-teel has a 2-handed sword at two of the three incarnations, as Miloch mentioned. Therefore, the leftover proficiencies can be invested in two-handed weapon style.

Any reason why sling is your "personal preference" for Safana? I always give her the Light Crossbow of Speed you can buy from Taerom, which is probably better than even a sling +3 (certainly hits harder anyway). Plus, a lot of your NPCs had slings (and now darts apparently) and only Kagain has crossbow that I can see. The "missile" proficiency in BG1, of course, allowed you to use any of those.

Here is the rundown for the missile weapons, currently. True, I agree there are too many slings and crossbow might work for Safana. I made the decision originally on 'character', but that's probably as equivocal as a d20. I'll switch her to xbow.

XBow: Garrick, Kagain, Shar-teel
Shortbow: Alora, Eldoth, Imoen, Skie
Longbow: Ajantis, Coran, Khalid, Kivan, Minsc
Dart: Dynaheir, Edwin, Eldoth, Xan
Sling: Alora, Branwin, Faldorn, Jaheira, Montaron, Safana, Tiax, Viconia, Yeslick

You make Xzar consistent with BG2 but not Edwin? Xzar isn't even joinable in BG2, is he?

Apart from one of the mega-mods, no. I've put BG1 consistency at a greater priority when considering Edwin, but with Xzar it is completely ambiguous in BG1, so it made it easier to reference BG2 since he does make an appearance.

Regardless, as Kastagir said, most of this ends up being personal preference, and I imagine that numerous people will use a 'customise proficiencies' component when I get around to it, than stick to the 'BGT standard'.

[Kastagir]

I like the idea of an extra component to customize the proficiencies, though I do appreciate your efforts to make the various CREs consistent to provide a baseline that is faithful to BG1 (where it can be). Would this customization component be part of the next tweak pack?

[Ascension64]

I like the idea of an extra component to customize the proficiencies, though I do appreciate your efforts to make the various CREs consistent to provide a baseline that is faithful to BG1 (where it can be). Would this customization component be part of the next tweak pack?

That is what is planned, yes.

[Miloch]

His portrait might indicate he is leaning on a quarterstaff, but it could easily be a walking stick or the handle of a blunt/spiked weapon (with commiserations for the floor). What does a gnome like to use?

It does look like he has a cudgel (which is closest to a club I suppose - a remarkably poor weapon in any of the games) but it could also be the butt-end of a morning star. It's unlikely he'd let a flail drag along the ground like that. But if we go around changing proficiencies based on portrait suggestions, we might be changing an awful lot (there is the same suggestion of a cudgel in Tiax's portrait for that matter).

As for the "most appropriate" weapon for his character, it should be a dagger (a "wavy" dagger, really) which is the preferred weapon of the clergy of Baravar. I give that as the first option in Gnomes v2 (as well as choices for flail, mace and quarterstaff). Obviously, that is a rather aggressive tweak though, since it requires making daggers usable by all cleric/mages.

As for allowing customisation of all NPCs' proficiencies, that is what Level 1 NPCs is all about. I applaud an option to restore NPC proficiencies closer to what they were in BG1 (and as I said, would like to steal the code for Tutu) but I think you'd be reinventing the wheel with a customisation component.

[Leomar]

I think it fits good in this thread:

If I take Minsc (Level 1) and Kivan (Level 2) in my party they have 6 proficiency points in weapons instead of 4 (for warrior classes). Both have two extra points in "2 weapons"?!?

Additional Kivan is showing Ogres as racial enemy, but by Minsc there is nothing. I think this should be Gnolls, but it is not shown.

Greetings Leomar

[10th]

Easy there. Both are Rangers and Rangers automatically get two stars in Two Weapon Style, nothing wrong with that. Standard game behaviour.

And concerning the racial enemy of Minsc, the problem is that gnolls aren't on the racial enemy list of BG2.

10th

Edited by 10th, 03 September 2008 - 05:41 AM.

[Leomar]

Easy there. Both are Rangers and Rangers automatically get two stars in Two Weapon Style, nothing wrong with that. Standard game behaviour.

Thanks for your answer. Sorry about my missing knowledge about the ranger weapon styles. It sounds a little overpowert with 6 instead of 4 proficiency points. Additional in the case that Minsc and Kivan use two-handed weapons instead of two weapons.

And concerning the racial enemy of Minsc, the problem is that gnolls aren't on the racial enemy list of BG2.

If there are no gnolls as racial enemies, then Minsc get no bonus against gnolls in BG1, right? Should this not be fixed for BGT?

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 04 September 2008 - 12:49 AM.

[Chevalier]

If there are no gnolls as racial enemies, then Minsc get no bonus against gnolls in BG1, right? Should this not be fixed for BGT?

Or maybe BG2 Fixpack?

[Kastagir]

This is addressed in the readme file that displays when installation is finished (C:\Program Files\Black Isle\BGII - SoA\BGT\Help\[English]PostInstall.htm):

Minsc?s racial enemy: Minsc?s racial enemy is gnolls. In Baldur?s Gate Trilogy-WeiDU, this will not display correctly in the record screen. However, the racial enemy bonus still applies. Minsc?s racial enemy will not update to vampire when he is directly imported into Shadows of Amn due to scripting limitations.