108 replies to this topic

[melkor_morgoth75]

Sorry i thought the gold component did touch the random "gold"carried (treasured) by creatures. I always get the same gold per ghouls for example (47 gold as per standard vanilla behaviour) and some random amount for gibberling (1 to 15 if i'm not wrong).

mm75

[Miloch]

Sorry i thought the gold component did touch the random "gold"carried (treasured) by creatures.

Well like I said, I could add an option to nerf the gold in the random treasure tables for the creature gold component. It will take some arcane math though (not my strong subject ) so I'm probably not going to do it unless there's some demand for it.

[Wisp]

+1 for arcane math (random gold rewards really are too much)

[Lollorian]

... some demand for it.

+1 demand

(if you're gonna nerf it ... nerf it ALL!!! This mod could replace the BP-Balancer lol [if it starts with items too ])

Cheers,
Lol

[Miloch]

if you're gonna nerf it ... nerf it ALL!!!

Wow, that's the only time I've ever seen you make a call for nerfing anything, what with your imba-overpowered items and whatnot .

Fine, I'll see what I can do. But this won't replace "BP Balancer" etc. for mod-added items - mm75 and OneEyedPhoenix are working on that.

[Lollorian]

Wow, that's the only time I've ever seen you make a call for nerfing anything, what with your imba-overpowered items and whatnot

It's only gold Not imba-powerful custom itamz with special skeelz!1!!1

besides, it helps me know that I'm not missing much by not picking every corpse's loot

Cheers,
Lol

[melkor_morgoth75]

It's just "fair" or at least role-playing wise that a ghoul doesn't have gold (or just 1 coin) and gibberling as well for example

Anyway, i didn't want really to add some more work for you mate

mm75

[Miloch]

It's just "fair" or at least role-playing wise that a ghoul doesn't have gold (or just 1 coin) and gibberling as well for example

I think you are right - I didn't really look at specific creatures in the first cut of this.

According to the 2nd edition Monster Manual, ghouls should have treasure type T outside their lairs, which means 1-4 scrolls according to the DMG. While I normally follow 2e rules, I find this to be particularly absurd. With INTs of 5-7 and being rotting corpses whose state has "destroyed their minds" (per the MM) - they can't read scrolls. It gets even sillier when you see that lacedons (marine ghouls) have the same treasure type. They're just as stupid, but even if they could or would, how the hell are they going to preserve scrolls underwater? Watertight containers? For what purpose?

Anyway, it says ghouls delight in loathsome objects, so I could see them carrying a bone or a body part, maybe some foul poison. But for practical purposes, maybe rndtre01 would suffice? That gives them maybe a couple coins on average (less if I include the random gold in the creature gold nerfing component) or perhaps a cheap gem - pocket change they may have been buried with.

As for gibberlings, both 2e and 3e rules say they should have no treasure at all. So I can fix that unless there are any strong objections .

If anyone can think of any specific creatures that have out-of-whack treasures (and aren't already fixed by this component), now's the time to bring it on I guess.

[Miloch]

+1 for arcane math (random gold rewards really are too much)

Well it turns out to be not really that arcane:

COPY_EXISTING ~rndequip.2da~ ~override~
			  ~rndmagic.2da~ ~override~
			  ~rndtreas.2da~ ~override~
			  ~rndwep.2da~ ~override~
  COUNT_2DA_COLS cl
  COUNT_2DA_ROWS cl rw
  FOR (wr = 0; wr < rw; wr += 1) BEGIN
	FOR (wc = 1; wc < cl;  wc += 1) BEGIN
	  READ_2DA_ENTRY wr wc cl t1
	  PATCH_IF (~%t1%~ STRING_MATCHES_REGEXP ~^[0-9]+~ = 0) BEGIN
		t2 = t1 / dn * nm //Denominator * numerator chosen during install (e.g. 50% = 2 * 1)
		PATCH_IF t2 < 1 BEGIN
		  SET_2DA_ENTRY wr wc cl ~*~
		END ELSE BEGIN
		  SET_2DA_ENTRY wr wc cl ~%t2%~
		END
	  END
	END
  END
BUT_ONLY

Maybe arcane for a half-orc, but nothing compared to what we do in the quest gold component.

The only caveat is that this being in the creature gold component will have to be installed after the random treasure component to affect those new entries. So I just swapped those two components in the install process. Not really a problem (even if it's already in BWP) due to DESIGNATED flags, unless you're used to manually installing the components in a certain order (pretty doubtful heh... they're fairly new after all).

I also manually nerfed the treasures of ghouls, kobolds, tasloi and xvarts - they all get rndtre01 now ("poor" in the random treasure table). No reason for them to be any richer - in 2e rules most of them get a few coppers or silvers, or maybe a crap gem. As mentioned above, gibberlings get nothing, the filthy vermin. In fact there's a good chance a lot of "poor" creatures will get nothing, depending on how hard you nerf the gold (if you choose 25% then random amounts of 2 or 3 gold will become zero gold, for example).

While I was messing with kobolds, I finally went ahead and coded a "Realistic Kobold Commandos" component as originally discussed here. It's somewhat relevant to treasure, since you won't always get fire arrows off them now - they have a couple regular fire arrows instead of the superpowered undroppable ones, so they may use them up if you don't dispatch the buggers quickly enough.

[Benji]

Upon trying to install the 'Realistic Random Treasures' component, I get a few error messages stopping it from installing. The messages tell me to post the debug file here so...

 SETUP_AURORA.DEBUG   462.68K   354 downloads

From what little I can tell, it seems to be a problem with DAQILUE.CRE, so i'll attach that file too

 DAQILUE.cre   1.46K   218 downloads

[Miloch]

From what little I can tell, it seems to be a problem with DAQILUE.CRE, so i'll attach that file too

That creature is fine on my BWP install, so some other mod must've hosed it. Can you do a weidu --change-log daqilue.cre on it as described in #5 in this thread and post the results (it'll list the mods that have affected that creature). You should also end up with a bunch of DAQUILUE.0000#.CRE files in your BGT folder - zip those and attach them here too.

Edited by Miloch, 02 November 2009 - 02:06 AM.

[Benji]

That creature is fine on my BWP install, so some other mod must've hosed it. Can you do a weidu --change-log daqilue.cre on it as described in #5 in this thread and post the results (it'll list the mods that have affected that creature). You should also end up with a bunch of DAQUILUE.0000#.CRE files in your BGT folder - zip those and attach them here too.

Here they are:

 change_log.txt   429bytes   244 downloads

There were only two new DAQILUE files, so I didn't bother zipping them:

 DAQILUE.00002.CRE   1.46K   209 downloads
 DAQILUE.00003.CRE   1.46K   199 downloads

[Miloch]

Mods affecting DAQILUE.CRE:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes
00001: /* from game biffs */ ~SETUP-MUNCHMOD.TP2~ 0 0 // Munchmod
00002: ~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ 0 0 // Big Picture AI/Enhancement Mod, version 177 weidu (beta)
00003: ~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ 0 0 // Aurora's Shoes and Boots

This creature was hosed before even BP got to it. It is unquestionably MunchMod that messed it up. It uses an outdated and buggy method of adding an item to the creature that doesn't even check for the correct slot offset, and it's writing 7 characters to an 8-character field without specifying the required size.

COPY_EXISTING~DAQILUE.cre~ ~override/DAQILUE.cre~ WRITE_ASCII 0x584 ~SGClck1~ //Qilue

All that stuff needs to be recoded big-time, something more like:

COPY_EXISTING ~daqilue.cre~ ~override~ //Qilue
  PATCH_IF SOURCE_SIZE > 0x71 BEGIN
	ADD_CRE_ITEM ~sgclck1~ #0 #0 #0 NONE ~CLOAK~
  END
BUT_ONLY

Not just there, but everywhere it does that sort of thing. It is a similar issue to the one I posted about the Longer Road here, only worse.

So don't use MunchMod until someone can recode it or the BWP team can fix it. Well, you've already got it installed and biffed... I'll try to see what I can do in Aurora's code so it avoids patching these types of CREs if it can't fix them.

[Miloch]

I'll try to see what I can do in Aurora's code so it avoids patching these types of CREs if it can't fix them.

Turns out it's easy enough to jiggle this routine to fix CREs like the above. Just open aurora/lib/t-rndtre.tpa in a text editor. Find the following text (around line 310):

PATCH_IF (j2 != (0 - 1)) AND (j2 < ic) BEGIN

Change it to:

PATCH_IF (j2 > (0 - 1)) AND (j2 < ic) BEGIN

In other words, change the first != there to a > sign. Gotta love arcane math (no, ok, we don't...).

[Benji]

Turns out it's easy enough to jiggle this routine to fix CREs like the above. Just open aurora/lib/t-rndtre.tpa in a text editor. Find the following text (around line 310):

PATCH_IF (j2 != (0 - 1)) AND (j2 < ic) BEGIN

Change it to:

PATCH_IF (j2 > (0 - 1)) AND (j2 < ic) BEGIN

In other words, change the first != there to a > sign. Gotta love arcane math (no, ok, we don't...).

Yay! That seemed to work fine and I now have this component installed.

Thanks (again) for all your help, Miloch!

[Leomar]

To let you know, White Agnus recoded Munchmod:
http://www.shsforums...&...st&p=467121

and corrected Longer Road:
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=43042

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 08 November 2009 - 07:39 PM.

[gastu]

Hey there. I'm new to these forums, and fairly new to this mod stuff too. Don't know any arcane math. Just tried to load Aurora and ran into the same above mentioned problem, although I believe it said something about another cre file as well as the one you seemed to be discussing. It said to come here and post my debug file, so here goes.

 SETUP_AURORA.DEBUG   967.34K   441 downloads

I don't know anything about this sort of thing... but have enjoyed a few mods from this site in the past, so I figure I should at least take the time to post this sort of thing if it helps out in the long run. I should say that Aurora finished installing on my computer without the one component that seemed to be hung up on the mussed files. But, If there is a way to fix it before I finish installing my other mods I wouldn't mind hearing about it.

[Miloch]

Hey there. I'm new to these forums, and fairly new to this mod stuff too. Don't know any arcane math. Just tried to load Aurora and ran into the same above mentioned problem, although I believe it said something about another cre file as well as the one you seemed to be discussing.

Hi gastu, and welcome to the forums. You have the same issue as Benji, and on the same creature too (daqilue.cre). Did you try the fix that worked for him? If it proves difficult, I suppose I can post a patch but so far that's the only bug I know of. All you have to do is open aurora/lib/t-rndtre.tpa in a text editor and make that one little change, then save the file, reinstall the mod component and it should work.

Also, you may want to get that updated MunchMod that Leomar posted, as the old version is responsible for this bug. But if it's far up in your install, you may not want to reinstall everything. Let me know if you have other issues.

[gastu]

Hey there. I'm new to these forums, and fairly new to this mod stuff too. Don't know any arcane math. Just tried to load Aurora and ran into the same above mentioned problem, although I believe it said something about another cre file as well as the one you seemed to be discussing.

Hi gastu, and welcome to the forums. You have the same issue as Benji, and on the same creature too (daqilue.cre). Did you try the fix that worked for him? If it proves difficult, I suppose I can post a patch but so far that's the only bug I know of. All you have to do is open aurora/lib/t-rndtre.tpa in a text editor and make that one little change, then save the file, reinstall the mod component and it should work.

Also, you may want to get that updated MunchMod that Leomar posted, as the old version is responsible for this bug. But if it's far up in your install, you may not want to reinstall everything. Let me know if you have other issues.

Hi Miloch, thanks for the welcome. I was very sleepy last night when reading your instructions for the fix... so any mention of formulas, code altering, or what-have-you sent me scampering for cover. Now that you've made it sound so simple, I may just try this fix of yours. I've had a chance to view the debug file this morning and saw what I was referring to last night as the other corrupted cre file. Near the bottom, above where it talks about the daqilue.cre error, the text states: BEHHIV01.CRE is corrupt: below minimum length. I don't know if that means anything, as the files seem to keep loading after that. Anyway, I'll try the fix. Thanks again.

[Miloch]

Near the bottom, above where it talks about the daqilue.cre error, the text states: BEHHIV01.CRE is corrupt: below minimum length. I don't know if that means anything, as the files seem to keep loading after that.

This is an informational message that shouldn't prevent you from installing the component. It will just skip that creature because it's corrupt. It might be useful to know which mod corrupted it though. To do that, you can follow the instructions I gave above in post #2, but substitute behhiv01.cre for daqilue.cre. Post or attach the resulting change_log and the resulting BEHHIV01.0000#.CRE files that should end up in your game folder.