1095 replies to this topic

[Roxanne]

Daniel, on 11 Feb 2018 - 20:00, said:

Roxanne, on 11 Feb 2018 - 17:24, said:

Return to the temple? Is this during the *factory* quest when you help Shauhana's side against the undead?

Spoiler

If yes, you need Myrkul's emblem which you find in the orc village in the tent behind Shauhana where you talked about Szass Tam.

In addition Global("SanHintFactory","GLOBAL") must be 12

i have the amulet i just dont know what to do with it. putting it on doesnt do anything and neither does putting it onthe altar.

All that is required is to have the amulet and go to the area with the temple where you left the jewel on the previous visit.

 

Did you meet Ghatlenk, the old orc shaman when you started the walk into the ice mountain? After the talk with him Global("SanHintFactory","GLOBAL") should be at 12.

Just check C:GetGlobal("SanHintFactory","GLOBAL")

 

If you enter the temple, you will be transferred again to the pool.

[glazedtape]

Hi Roxanne, I am also experiencing the 1-2 second delay associated with CVSANDRA.BCS and equipable items.
The delay is such that item stacks cannot be split by double clicking.
I believe that this problem is not directly linked to, or at least is in addition to, the (equally frustrating) momentary delay with equipable items in a standard EE game, which I understand is going to be fixed in the 2.5 patch.

I am currently running a large install which may have exacerbated the problem. I will do a reinstall with just Sandrah plus its dependencies as a last resort as I would rather like to play your mod through at least once with all the things.

As a preface:
-Simply removing the script as said by Ulb about a year ago removes the lag. Obviously not an option.
-Using the change-log function reveals that the only changes made to CVSANDRA.BCS are done by: SandrahNPC Extensions, Mod Interactions and Sandrah EET additions, which, as far as I understand the changelog, are sections from the SandrahNPC tp2 file. Change-log file attached just in case.
-Sanhamm.itm, Sanamul.itm and Sanarmm.itm are unchanged.
-Removing Sandrah's personal items via EEKeeper doesn't help.
-Biffing the override doesn't help.
-The lag does not occur with Sandra removed from the party even when Neera (with her staff) is a party member.

I do not have even a vague understanding of BG modding as far as scripting is concerned, but I have some questions
1. In the readme for EET Tweaks, the section describing the changes to global scripts indicates HasItem is resource demanding. HasItem appears over 100 times even in the default CVSANDRA.BAF. Could this be a factor?
2. Does the total size of CVSANDRA.BCS matter in any way? The one sitting in my override is almost a megabyte (68000 lines). Scripts of comparable size appear to be area scripts, with other scripts usually less than 100kb, most of those are less than 10kb.
3. Noob scripting question: Does the whole script run every time I click an equipable item? If yes, why not for misc items like gems?

Attached Files

•  change-log.txt   301bytes   203 downloads

Edited by glazedtape, 22 February 2018 - 10:30 PM.

[Roxanne]

glazedtape, on 23 Feb 2018 - 06:27, said:

Hi Roxanne, I am also experiencing the 1-2 second delay associated with CVSANDRA.BCS and equipable items.
The delay is such that item stacks cannot be split by double clicking.
I believe that this problem is not directly linked to, or at least is in addition to, the (equally frustrating) momentary delay with equipable items in a standard EE game, which I understand is going to be fixed in the 2.5 patch.

I am currently running a large install which may have exacerbated the problem. I will do a reinstall with just Sandrah plus its dependencies as a last resort as I would rather like to play your mod through at least once with all the things.

As a preface:
-Simply removing the script as said by Ulb about a year ago removes the lag. Obviously not an option.
-Using the change-log function reveals that the only changes made to CVSANDRA.BCS are done by: SandrahNPC Extensions, Mod Interactions and Sandrah EET additions, which, as far as I understand the changelog, are sections from the SandrahNPC tp2 file. Change-log file attached just in case.
-Sanhamm.itm, Sanamul.itm and Sanarmm.itm are unchanged.
-Removing Sandrah's personal items via EEKeeper doesn't help.
-Biffing the override doesn't help.
-The lag does not occur with Sandra removed from the party even when Neera (with her staff) is a party member.

I do not have even a vague understanding of BG modding as far as scripting is concerned, but I have some questions
1. In the readme for EET Tweaks, the section describing the changes to global scripts indicates HasItem is resource demanding. HasItem appears over 100 times even in the default CVSANDRA.BAF. Could this be a factor?
2. Does the total size of CVSANDRA.BCS matter in any way? The one sitting in my override is almost a megabyte (68000 lines). Scripts of comparable size appear to be area scripts, with other scripts usually less than 100kb, most of those are less than 10kb.
3. Noob scripting question: Does the whole script run every time I click an equipable item? If yes, why not for misc items like gems?

About scripting (and what is not scripted)

 

re 1. HasItem is resource demanding if used on every turn of the script. Therefore in Sandrah it is used to set globals instead and only triggered when needed, HasItem does never appear as the first condition after the IF in my script but only after other conditions are already true, e.g. the initial glöbal is still 0 (=the check was not done before), the party is in an area or chapter where you can find the item etc.This means that only 1 of those checks may be performed on one round in the game and only if the proceeding conditions are met, the inventory will be searched. That is a large difference from searching for HasItem for every item in a list on every turn for all NPCs and their inventory.

 

re 2. I have not found evidence that the size of the script matters in EE. That was once the case in classic game. You also need to consider that the EET itself uses much larger scripts now for those NPC that appear in all parts of the game. I had originally split the override script into 3 for BG1/soD, BG2, and ToB with some overlap for common functions. It was extremely cumbersome to maintain and there was no benefit from it at all. So I now use one consistent script for all game and see no delay on my machine with it. Large scripts are not a big problem if you take care of the coding - the order in which conditions are checked is the key to this, i.e. if the code is such that the engine already finds in the first line of a block that this block can be skipped it will be much faster than having 5 very global conditions first before the specific case appears that determines yes or no (Example to check if the NPC is InParty as a first condition in that NPC's script is crap when you only need that check after everything that is more specific is true already - while if something can only happen in one or two areas in the game then this should be checked as first condition.)

 

re 3. There seems to be a misunderstanding (not just you but also other posters) by mixing up the HasItem checks in scripts with the checking for "can use item" when managing the inventory. Those things have nothing to do with each other. The delay from inventory is not caused by any NPC script but is actually the known vanilla game issue that may or may not be fixed by v2.5. This is evaluating flags set for the items and is not using or running the script.

 

I am not saying that a large and complex mod like Sandrah may not add to problems you have with the game on your machine. But she is not the root of the problem. Because she appears very early in the game, she is often the first indicator where issues become visible.(which is the reason I am confronted with them often and have learned a bit about it.)

 

By the way, I cannot reproduce any of those issues on my install and I have checked many savegames from other players on my computer without seeing those problems. If you post one here, I can take a look as well.

[glazedtape]

Thank you for your speedy response.

 

New save with the same install.
- New character (No inventory lag)
- Spoke with Imoen (Mage/Thief)
- Left Candlekeep
- Ctrl+J to Sandrah
- She joins (lag starts)

I doubt you'll find anything if you haven't in the saves that other people have provided but you never know.
I'm going to make a new install with just Sandrah+dependencies so that's going to take a while, as my laptop is a potato.

Attached Files

•  000000060-TEST.zip   129.9K   187 downloads

[Roxanne]

glazedtape, on 23 Feb 2018 - 08:37, said:

Thank you for your speedy response.

 

New save with the same install.
- New character (No inventory lag)
- Spoke with Imoen (Mage/Thief)
- Left Candlekeep
- Ctrl+J to Sandrah
- She joins (lag starts)

I doubt you'll find anything if you haven't in the saves that other people have provided but you never know.
I'm going to make a new install with just Sandrah+dependencies so that's going to take a while, as my laptop is a potato.

As expected.

Nothing visible in my install no lag, no stuttering, scripts run normal without delay.

Only issue (not related to Sandrah at all) - you need like 20 clicks to hit the lucky spot where you can split stacked potions.

I played around a bit and picked up Gorion's dagger, quests starts, Journal is updated. Inventory management is fine except stacked items.

 

Quote

my laptop is a potato

This may be true reason? And like I said in the earlier post, Sandrah probably is just the first NPC you met that makes it visible.

 

PS - I am not sure that a new install will help much. Given the scene from your save, there is nothing much going on at that moment related to other mods, functions or scripts. There is you, Imoen, Sandrah, Imoen's script, Baldur.bcs, Sandrah's script, the area script. All in all 20 inventory items. A timer that runs to spawn Haiass in a few minutes. Nothing that excessively could eat up resources, really.

Edited by Roxanne, 23 February 2018 - 02:11 AM.

[glazedtape]

You were right in regards to a new install (although without SCS et al, it only took about an hour)
Same beginning steps with an entirely new character with only Sandrah + dependencies installed, same lag.

 

Roxanne said:

Sandrah probably is just the first NPC you met that makes it visible

If this is referencing the unique item opcode thing, then I don't think you're right, as it didnt happen with Neera's staff, nor has it ever happened in any of my other installs (EET or otherwise) and I usually have lot of stuff installed. If it really was because of my specs, I would be having continuous performance issues rather than a 1-2 second freeze whenever
- Sandrah is in the party (Causing CVSANDRA.BCS to be used in some capacity)

and
- Selecting an equipable item

 

Roxanne said:

you need like 20 clicks to hit the lucky spot where you can split stacked potions.

Wait, do you mean that when you normally play on your own install, you have difficulty consistently splitting potion stacks? Because that's not not the small delay I get in EE games without Sandrah.

 

Unfortunately it looks like, for whatever reason, I can't play Sandrah without the lag. Fingers crossed that 2.5 fixes this, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

EDIT: Totally a shot in the dark, but you don't happen to have your install on a SSD do you?

Edited by glazedtape, 23 February 2018 - 03:05 AM.

[Roxanne]

glazedtape, on 23 Feb 2018 - 11:03, said:

EDIT: Totally a shot in the dark, but you don't happen to have your install on a SSD do you?

I missed that edit. The answer is yes.but I used HDD until recently, so not really related.

[Roxanne]

merengue, on 05 Mar 2018 - 14:12, said:

Ran into a bug where Elminster thinks Sandrah is dead and left dead by the party, while she is alive and in the party. Elminster summons and says something to the likes of: you should be ashamed to leave Sandrah like this bla bla... and then casts a spell killing my party or atleast doing very heavy damage and killing some members. 

 

I tried actually letting Sandrah die and resurrect her to see if this would reset the variable but that didn't work. With haste I can outrun Elminster and avoid him, but no matter where I talk to him (where he spawned or in Waterdeep), the result will be te same and the questline I imagine is stalled. 

 

Any idea on how to reset this variable with the CLUAconsole? Thanks. 

C:SetGlobal("ElmRevDau","GLOBAL",0)

 

This issue should have been fixed a while back already. Maybe your install is older than the repair?

[Roxanne]

merengue, on 06 Mar 2018 - 08:26, said:

Roxanne, on 05 Mar 2018 - 16:32, said:

merengue, on 05 Mar 2018 - 14:12, said:

Ran into a bug where Elminster thinks Sandrah is dead and left dead by the party, while she is alive and in the party. Elminster summons and says something to the likes of: you should be ashamed to leave Sandrah like this bla bla... and then casts a spell killing my party or atleast doing very heavy damage and killing some members. 

 

I tried actually letting Sandrah die and resurrect her to see if this would reset the variable but that didn't work. With haste I can outrun Elminster and avoid him, but no matter where I talk to him (where he spawned or in Waterdeep), the result will be te same and the questline I imagine is stalled. 

 

Any idea on how to reset this variable with the CLUAconsole? Thanks. 

C:SetGlobal("ElmRevDau","GLOBAL",0)

 

This issue should have been fixed a while back already. Maybe your install is older than the repair?

 

No, my install is a month old tops. Its a mega install so maybe some interference from another mod somewhere. Or well, there might be a lot of variables that trigger it, so who knows, I don't have any idea how it got triggered in my game unfortunately. Thanks, I will try the fix!

The other thing to check could be C:GetGlobal("Sprite_is_DeadCVSandr","Global") which must be 0 if Sandrah is alive.

[Roxanne]

Dan, on 14 Mar 2018 - 20:24, said:

how hard is it to play the sandrah saga with an evil main, if at all possible? I am almost done with a mega play-through and was thinking of doing another run with an evil theme. I know sandrah probably wont leave the party because of evil choices but how practical is it? thanks

It depends on how you flesh out your evil character. There is some extra contents for an evil aligned character to prove the real intention to Sandrah. You can do things because they are profitable and not because they are *good* and Sandrah would not mind, as long as the outcome suits her. Killing innocents however is just stupid and she would object. Sandrah herself is not really a *good* NPC in the game's use of that term nor does she share much of the common view on *evil*.

I played an evil NPC with her through a whole game with her but I never turned into the slayer or murdered with no reason. So it is possible in some *sane* way of being evil but not in a madman way, i.e. making decisions just because they are evil but not because there is some justification to do it this way.

[Enforcer]

Roxanne said:

Lightbringer23 said:

Don't know if it's much help at this point, but I experienced the same exact issue that Ulb described.  It seemed limited specifically to equippable items -- as thought the game was taking awhile to pull up the yellow overlays of who could use the item.  I have a second instance of EET -- without Sandrah -- I'll be starting in a few days that I can compare to and see if the issue remains.
 
In another note, I don't think it's a hardware issue.  I'm running Win 10 on a quad-core 2.4 processor with 6gb of RAM and a 2gb video card, with no other applications running, and with a fresh boot.

 
 
 
 
 
 

I've met the same issue.
My BG2EE version is GOG 2.3.67.3

• I tried reinstall bws with minimum settings (EET, Sandra part 1 and all minimum requirements according to bws). BWS selection config attached.
  Still same issue.
• I tried debug mod that was attached here earlier that adds display output if any script is running.
  No text output appeared during inventory edit.
• I tried different versions of UI.menu. Including one that allows to disable item comparison. I tried to hide portraits (hotkey U).
  Still same issue
• I tried remove parts of cvsandra.bcs script (via near infinity). There is no single if-then-end construction that causes this.
  The more I delete from cvsandra.bcs the faster inventory works.
  I tried to remove all "THEN" code after

  response #100

  for all cases.
  Delay dropped from >1s to 0.1-0.3s, but still present.

Finally I gave up and made up a short dirty hack:
add code to cvsandra.bcs

IF
  HotKey(D)
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
    DisplayStringHead(Myself,16470)
    ChangeAIScript("CVSANDD",OVERRIDE)
END 

add cvsandd.bcs to override folder with single case:

IF
  HotKey(D)
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
    DisplayStringHead(Myself,16469)
    ChangeAIScript("CVSANDRA", OVERRIDE)
END

 
During game:

• before you need to do something with inventory, select sandrah, press D and see confirmation in output: "Off"
• Open inventory screen and do things you want, close inventory screen
• Select Sandrah, press D again and see confirmation in output: "On"

I will continue to play my build and hopefully this won't affect sadrah or other mod stability (much).

Attached Files

•  sandrah-eet.zip   4.09K   202 downloads

Edited by Enforcer, 07 April 2018 - 06:43 AM.

[Roxanne]

Let me try to summarize this in the hope to understand your findings:

There is nothing in the CVSandrah.bcs with respect to item handling that causes delay in the game. The item GUI search mechanism itself seems to be resource consuming. The script runs in parallel (normal cycling, nothing to do with what you have on the screen. Sandrah's personal items have no effect here.

Both operations running at the same time is what may cause the delay.

 

Is that a fair summery?

 

Edit

Additional question - did you assign some AI script on her?

Edited by Roxanne, 07 April 2018 - 07:13 AM.

[Roxanne]

wertax, on 08 Apr 2018 - 09:36, said:

Hello Roxanne,

 

i have a problem with some maps. There are containers, i can highlight, Npcs, Quests work, but there is no real map, just a black backround.

 

On the first map i didn't realize that it was a bug. I thought the Demon Cave was just a dark place and my party hit their heads and randomly passed out^^

 

The House, where you first meet Khattark, were also black except of the shinning fireplace.

 

Now i have a black map where Elminsters House should be.

 

I think the problem is, that i used the big_biff after the megamod installation. It is possible that the game couldn't found the right data now?

Your guess is absolutely correct. Biffing does something to the new format of EE-game graphic files and they no longer work. It seems it puts the master file and the attachments into different biffs and you get the result like you describe.

Biffing is not recommended for EE (this is one of the reasons).

 

Try this:

- Go to your BG2EE directory and look for SandrahNPC/PVRZ folder.

- Mark and copy ALL of the files

- Put the copies into BG2EE/override

 

If that is not fixing it, then additionally go to SandrahNPC/areas folder

- Filter or sort all the files to see everything with the file extension .tis

- Mark and copy all tis-files into BG2EE/override

 

I hope that repairs it but you may have similar problems throughout the game with some other mod added areas. I assume that Sandrah's areas were just the first ones you encountered.

[Roxanne]

wertax, on 08 Apr 2018 - 09:59, said:

Roxanne, on 08 Apr 2018 - 09:50, said:

If that is not fixing it, then additionally go to SandrahNPC/areas folder

- Filter or sort all the files to see everything with the file extension .tis

- Mark and copy all tis-files into BG2EE/override

 

Hello Roxanne,

 

thank you. This works :-)

If you see a similar thing with some other areas from another mod, do not hesitate to ask. We may find a solution for that as well, at least it is worth a try.