347 replies to this topic

[Auvrin]

Otoh, I'm not interested in writing the dialogues of my vampiresque would-be romance myself. I would be spoiling my own fun... ! Sorry!

Prime example of why I don't bother to respond fully to any of your posts.

However, considering you want a reply, here you go and remember that you asked for it.

It would seem you would be happy romancing a blow-up doll, if you scotch taped a knife into it's hand and sprinkled a little ketchup over it. Perfect partner for the slayer? There is no perfect partner for a spawn of murder that embraces death to the fullest. You toss two blood thirsty killers in a room, don't expect them to come out holding hands.

[Hendryk]

There is no perfect partner for a spawn of murder that embraces death to the fullest. You toss two blood thirsty killers in a room, don't expect them to come out holding hands.

This pretty well defines the difference between your attitutde toward Evil and most other "Evil" proponents, including Bioware (who portray Korgan as being as psychotically bloodthirsty as Valen and still let him hold the PC's hand throughout with hardly a murmur; others, of course, aren't so fortunate). Mostly, these believe being "Evil" involves nothing more than grotesque nautiness, being at liberty to kill annoying or helpless "stage prop" NPCs without any real game effect otherwise.

You, on the other hand, take Evil seriously; truly Evil acts would necessarily involve grim, even tragic, consequences for the PC and all associates. I absolutely agree with this logic but it is a minority view. From a game perspective, it also has the drawback of being extremely difficult to play unless the PC is on a more or less solo adventure. I post this only because I think some of the acerbity could be profitably eliminated from this thread if everyone involved took it for granted that they hold fundamentally different views on the role of Evil in a computer game.

[Trau]

Trau, actually helping out in a productive manner might go over far better than telling people to either support it or keep quiet.  Put your money where your mouth is and write up some dialogs that make Valen more of a character.

All Weimer needs to do is ask.

[Trau]

Boy, this modding stuff sure looks hard. I want to make my own stuff so much that I don't want to play BGII till I've done it...Anyone able to comment on how long it takes to get good at these things?

[Eocine]

It would seem you would be happy romancing a blow-up doll, if you scotch taped a knife into it's hand and sprinkled a little ketchup over it.  .

Works for me

[Auvrin]

You, on the other hand, take Evil seriously; truly Evil acts would necessarily involve grim, even tragic, consequences for the PC and all associates. I absolutely agree with this logic but it is a minority view. From a game perspective, it also has the drawback of being extremely difficult to play unless the PC is on a more or less solo adventure. I post this only because I think some of the acerbity could be profitably eliminated from this thread if everyone involved took it for granted that they hold fundamentally different views on the role of Evil in a computer game.

Evil always ends up watered down in games to appease the masses. I agree with you that BG2 is very hard to play as an evil character, even by role play standards. One of the mods I'm working on will hopefully correct some of this. A party of evil character's that would sooner kill you then the enemy unless you display extreme force and otherwise evil acts against your cohorts. This however will be my second project to the other NPC I'm working on.

[Trau]

All Weimer needs to do is ask.

By this I mean dialogues, and not dialogs.   I'm rather incompetnt at coding right now.

[serjeLeBlade]

Otoh, I'm not interested in writing the dialogues of my vampiresque would-be romance myself. I would be spoiling my own fun... ! Sorry!

Prime example of why I don't bother to respond fully to any of your posts.

However, considering you want a reply, here you go and remember that you asked for it.

It would seem you would be happy romancing a blow-up doll, if you scotch taped a knife into it's hand and sprinkled a little ketchup over it. Perfect partner for the slayer? There is no perfect partner for a spawn of murder that embraces death to the fullest. You toss two blood thirsty killers in a room, don't expect them to come out holding hands.

About replying me just because I asked, all I can say is "thank you".
Your line sounds threatening but I can't find anything offensive or disturbing in all of your post.

I asked for your opinion and got it.
It's quite fair for me!

So the ideal partner for the Slayer does not exists.
What a pity!
I'll just say again that Valen has potential for it and should be worked upon.
Point me to some altenative if you wish.
I'm not saying or implying that my point of view could be better than yours!

You toss two blood thirsty killers in a room, don't expect them to come out holding hands.

Agreed. (This looks like you're quoting me from somewhere else... Gamebanshee I guess...) Funny. I'm pretty sure it wasn't intentional. Do you ever browse Gamebanshee... ?

But about the blown-up doll, I'm a little puzzled. Are you implying that I know nothing about evil? Ore are you actually stating that Valen makes no adequate partner for an evil Bhaalspawn?
Again, I'm asking just because I'd like to read your answer.
I'm sorry if it troubles you in any way.

[Auvrin]

Do you ever browse Gamebanshee... ?

I believe this is the first time I've even heard the name, so no.

But about the blown-up doll, I'm a little puzzled. Are you implying that I know nothing about evil? Ore are you actually stating that Valen makes no adequate partner for an evil Bhaalspawn?

No to both. It means that it seems you would be happy with a romance to anything so long as it looked evil, despite wether it had character or not.

[Hendryk]

I'm an Evil guy.

Valen's an Evil girl.

She's more effective than Viccy.

She's Undead, which is cool.

She wears tight spandex pants.

Ergo: Valen should be romanceable.


Hey, go for it. The point is to enjoy the game yourself, right?

[Auvrin]

I'm an Evil guy.

Valen's an Evil girl.

She's more effective than Viccy.

She's Undead, which is cool.

She wears tight spandex pants.

Ergo: Valen should be romanceable.

Should I snicker now or later?

[Eocine]

I'm an Evil guy.

Valen's an Evil girl.

She's more effective than Viccy.

She's Undead, which is cool.

She wears tight spandex pants.

Ergo: Valen should be romanceable.


Hey, go for it. The point is to enjoy the game yourself, right?

If you set it to music I'd predict global domination

[Trau]

It means that it seems you would be happy with a romance to anything so long as it looked evil, despite wether it had character or not.

And why should it matter to you?

[Auvrin]

And why should it matter to you?

Good question, where was your name in that post?

As for anyone else, no, they don't matter to me. Valen as a mod is the topic however, and if an example within a figure of speech would get a point across so be it.

Though it's become more then obvious words are utterly wasted in this debate, so I wont continue. Simply put, my opinion still stands.. If anything more is done with Valen, she should be finished as a character and fleshed out a bit more. I don't feel a romance would be worth the large amount of time and work until she had a bit more to her then just being a walking weapon.

[Hendryk]

True, there's nothing in the mod now to build a relationship on. But there is plenty in our general culture to generate speculation about what a relationship with a vampire might be like - and Valen is at least a less unsuitable focus for such speculation than Bodhi.

Myself, I think it would be interesting to watch an Evil NPC try to lead the PC from petty, run-of-the-mill selfish Evil to an impersonal, almost mystical Evil-as-an-end-in-itself. And I think this thread is a suitable place to express such interest. Weimer has no time or inclination to implement any such thing? Fine. That's his call absolutely. But I don't see why I should limit my thoughts based on what he might or might not decide.

[serjeLeBlade]

No to both.  It means that it seems you would be happy with a romance to anything so long as it looked evil, despite wether it had character or not.

Thank you again for answering.

(What you say could be true... if nothing better would happen to be available at the moment).

But I believe that if Weimer will decide to work more on Valen, her character would improve anyway... "evil seduction" or not.
(I've definitely abandoned the term "romance" myself... )

[Trau]

Good question, where was your name in that post?

                    I fail to see how that matters, as well. You seem to care too much about how folks play on their own pc.

[Kish]

I fail to see how that matters, as well. You seem to care too much about how folks play on their own pc.

You are not asking for changes to Valen on your PC. You are asking for changes to the Valen who everyone who wants the most updated version of the mod will be playing with.

[Trau]

A romance could be avoided. It could be an installment option, or a dialogue option like with Solaufein, or you could just not get the latest versions.

I will say this...Perhaps the premise for this thread was the wrong one. I think we should move, like Auvrin has said, to 'fleshing' out her character. I think I have a few pretty cool ideas as to the direction of her character.