250 replies to this topic

[Civian]

Ooo Tempest, I just read your scheme for ToB -but ahh I am getting ahead of myself - it is natural to want more though yes? I am a major continuity nut, but Darian is definitely one of the exceptions to that rule.

[Tempest]

Serious work on ToB is a ways off. My computer is still out of commission and will likely remain so for a while yet, but have a ToB banter I've sketched out:

Sarevok: Are you afraid of me, winged one? You do not meet my gaze when I look, then glare at me the moment you think I'm not watching.

Darian: Yes, I am afraid of you. You have no conscience, no remorse, and you rival <CHARNAME> in sheer stubborness and perseverance. You are also one of the most dangerous fighters I've ever heard of, even in legends. Are you somehow surprised I fear you in light of all that?

Sarevok: No. I am surprised that you admit to fearing me.

Darian: Don't get ahead of yourself. I was afraid of Bodhi and Irenicus, too. Fear didn't stop me from burying them, and <CHARNAME> has slain you twice already.

Sarevok: Is that a threat I hear?

Darian: If it has to be.

Sarevok: I think we will get along fine, elf...

Edited by Tempest, 21 January 2011 - 04:46 AM.

[Civian]

Brilliant.

[Kaeloree]

AdvanceRealTime(55555). The timer shouldn't get 'stuck', though.

[Tempest]

I'm loving the way the dialogue's written so far, interesting stuff. Quick question though, is there a code we can punch in the CLUA if the timer gets stuck? I can usually figure it out by myself, but I'm stuck on this one.

If the romance does seem to be stuck and K'ae's command doesn't work, you've hit either the end of his SoA non-plot romance, in which case you need to leave for Spellhold, or you've hit his midpoint lovetalk, in which case you need to rest in a forest to trigger the lovetalk.

[Tempest]

I have no idea, unfortunately, and Darian's readme states that the mod is only confirmed to work on PC's at the moment. I have no idea where to begin making the mod Mac-compatible.

[Kaeloree]

There's not a mac version currently, as I'm not able to test whether one would work. If someone would like to put together and test a mac version I would be happy to upload it.

[Tempest]

Elaborating on what lies ahead a bit:

While my personal computer is still out of commission and I can't start serious writing/coding, I have done some thinking and sketching of what lies ahead for Darian in ToB.

First, and something that I'll probably make an *optional* component, is that the Darian/Aerie relationship will be expanded upon in ToB and could go several different ways. I'm still undecided about what all will happen, but if you brought Darian and Aerie along for the ride and didn't romance either of them, they may decide to give things another chance after realizing how stupid they acted in SoA. Of course, Haer'Dalis is liable to make things even more complicated...

However, for a taste of what the ToB romance with Darian will be like... don't expect happy, lovey-dovey all the time. Darian is a more down-to-earth character in ToB and has dropped most of his pretentious jerk behavior, but Charname will again be a problem as he reflects and re-evaluates his life. He has strong doubts about the relationship and where it will go, and will repeatedly offer to end things with no hard feelings before Charname gets hurt. Darian regards his own pain as irrelevant in that regard - he wants Charname to be happy, and he doesn't think she can ultimately be happy with him.

With the other Bioware NPC's, Darian is again more down-to-earth and will try to patch things up with most of the good/neutral cast and even Viconia, whom Darian will have concluded is all bark and no bite. Edwin will still be a problem, of course, and Darian won't be thrilled with Sarevok, but he'll generally be much less socially disruptive in ToB.

[Setepenre]

Cool! You have really thought this out.

Darian is all yours, obviously, but I just have to say that I completely understand why Darian would have doubts. However, I hope ALL of ToB isn't a downer. It's depressing enough even Vanilla...

Darian and Aerie... Hee hee! I'll never see THAT content; I'm too jealous! But I can certainly see him loosening up a bit and re-evaluating his behaviour toward her. However, she'll also have to re-evaluate hers. That would be very interesting, indeed.

[Tempest]

It will be up to Charname to decide whether things will be a complete downer or not. Darian has some very good reasons to be concerned about the relationship, notably that he was a pretenious, xeonphobic jerkass in SoA and he's genuinely concerned about the fact that Charname pursued him anyway, but it'll ultimately be up to Charname.

For Darian and Aerie, I'm thinking of several different routes that that relationship could go, depending on who's in the party and what Charname's been up to. Don't know how much I'll actually implement, but I've tentatively settled on at least four different versions of their relationship in ToB. As for Haer'Dalis... it might turn violent (Haer'Dalis challenging Darian to a duel ala Haer'Dalis and Charname in SoA), or Aerie might come to Charname and let him/her decide. Haven't decided on any of that yet.

[Tempest]

Further mini-update now that I've started actually writing Darian for ToB and getting a firm grasp of his character development:

1. Darian will be a relatively low-key party member if he's not being romanced, his gig with Aerie aside. He's mellowed out quite a bit and generally knows that in ToB, he's in way over his head. As a result, he won't have that much to say (exceptions: Aerie and HD, the latter if Charname isn't romancing him) and he'll generally be much more reluctant to offer his opinion or piss off party members. Some of the Bioware cast will note this.

2. If he is being romanced... sorry to say it, but as I'm getting a better grasp of things, I'm afraid that his romance in ToB will generally feel like a downer. A romantic relationship with Darian was never very realistic on Charname's part, and Darian feels out of his depth in ToB even before a relationship with Charname is added to it. A happy ending *is* possible, but Darian has some very good reasons to be uneasy about the relationship.

3. Something to add to SoA - I'm not sure if it will be codeable or not, but my inclination for how to handle Darian responding to Anomen and Aerie fighting is simple: Darian would defend Aerie and kill Anomen if necessary. Ideally (if it can be coded) he would join the fight on Aerie's side. Darian and CN Anomen don't get along to begin with, and Darian will not let someone try to murder Aerie on his watch.


And a preview, ToB Darian in a nutshell:


Minsc: Darian, you no longer shout battlecries as loudly as you used to. Do your butt-kicking boots need polishing?

Darian: No. It was easier when we were only fighting dragons and vampires and the like. Against demons and demigods... a good battlecry just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Minsc: Minsc agrees. Boo and I are having trouble finding the butt to kick on many of these new foes.

Darian: Well, nothing we can do but keep fighting and keep our heads down, I suppose. I just hope <CHARNAME> knows what <PRO_HESHE>'s doing.

[Setepenre]

2. If he is being romanced... sorry to say it, but as I'm getting a better grasp of things, I'm afraid that his romance in ToB will generally feel like a downer. A romantic relationship with Darian was never very realistic on Charname's part, and Darian feels out of his depth in ToB even before a relationship with Charname is added to it. A happy ending *is* possible, but Darian has some very good reasons to be uneasy about the relationship.


I can see your point. Now, I'm not only saying this because I like romances, but I think that the romance "being unrealistic" is complete a subjective POV. This is the world of Toril and magic and gods and demons and such. To me, not a hell of a lot is "unrealistic."

But, granting a happy ending depending on Charname is a good idea. That way, the player can have what he/she really wants, especially when most of us have played the game over a hundred times and NEED some joy for what feels like the zillionth playthru! Or, those who actually do like downer endings can have that, as well. I feel strongly, I'll admit, that I want the possibility of a happy ending, both for personal preference, and in that, as I said, I think it is entirely subjective to think it "unrealistic." Of course, he's yours, and I'm just a Darian-lover with a hopeful heart! <3


About coding for Aerie and Anomen in SoA...Perfect! Darian would indeed become angry and protect Aerie. It only makes sense!

Oh, I tried a bit of an evil thing, just for fun...and did you know that in the Circus, if you take the Path of "not believing her to be an enchanted female" and you kill her, Darian doesn't say a thing? You can even leave the Tent and he says nothing. I didn't continue on indefinitely to wait to see if he would, for fear that the romance would be broken.

So...did I miss it, or did you forget that the player, especially a newbie, or evil one, romancing him or not, can kill Aerie and he doesn't react?
Or, I could have missed it. I missed his last LoveTalk in my first game, so I suppose it's possible that my load of mods or something didn't cause the dialog to trigger.

[Tempest]

I can see your point. Now, I'm not only saying this because I like romances, but I think that the romance "being unrealistic" is complete a subjective POV. This is the world of Toril and magic and gods and demons and such. To me, not a hell of a lot is "unrealistic."

Magic and gods and demons have zero impact on how relationships work.

But, granting a happy ending depending on Charname is a good idea. That way, the player can have what he/she really wants, especially when most of us have played the game over a hundred times and NEED some joy for what feels like the zillionth playthru! Or, those who actually do like downer endings can have that, as well. I feel strongly, I'll admit, that I want the possibility of a happy ending, both for personal preference, and in that, as I said, I think it is entirely subjective to think it "unrealistic." Of course, he's yours, and I'm just a Darian-lover with a hopeful heart! <3

There are other factors involved in whether Charname and Darian have an ending together or not. If not, I would say that Darian still has a happy ending - it's just not with Charname. As a matter of fact, I can tell you now that Darian will be a much happier person in ToB if he's not being romanced. It spares him a lesson that's already caused him, and may cause Charname, a great deal of pain.

Oh, I tried a bit of an evil thing, just for fun...and did you know that in the Circus, if you take the Path of "not believing her to be an enchanted female" and you kill her, Darian doesn't say a thing? You can even leave the Tent and he says nothing. I didn't continue on indefinitely to wait to see if he would, for fear that the romance would be broken.

So...did I miss it, or did you forget that the player, especially a newbie, or evil one, romancing him or not, can kill Aerie and he doesn't react?
Or, I could have missed it. I missed his last LoveTalk in my first game, so I suppose it's possible that my load of mods or something didn't cause the dialog to trigger.

You, the player, aren't supposed to know that the ogre in the circus is Aerie. Darian doesn't know it, either. He also wouldn't twig to Aerie being an Avariel if all he sees is her corpse.

[Setepenre]

Magic and gods and demons have zero impact on how relationships work.

I didn't say they did, I just used that as an example of what is or may be or not be considered realistic. Oh, ugh...in this world, god/s have a HUGE impact on how relationships work. I found that out the hard way by being an atheist in a god-riddled world, and women in the East...*shudder* And if gods were real, IDK. They seem to be quite an interfering lot.


You, the player, aren't supposed to know that the ogre in the circus is Aerie. Darian doesn't know it, either. He also wouldn't twig to Aerie being an Avariel if all he sees is her corpse.

That's what I mean. If you don't know, and kill her, will Darian eventually complain about not being aided by Charname? He does have the lead of the "circus" to go on, so that just makes me wonder. So romance or not, he could unexpectedly leave your party?

I think the death causes her to take back her true form, and he would see her stumps?

It's okay. I'm too much of a newbie, I guess. I'll try to refrain from commenting on Darian any more. I'll just end by saying that I appreciate your hard work and really like him. I didn't mean to offend you.

Thank you for everything, truly.

[Setepenre]

I can see your point. Now, I'm not only saying this because I like romances, but I think that the romance "being unrealistic" is complete a subjective POV. This is the world of Toril and magic and gods and demons and such. To me, not a hell of a lot is "unrealistic."

Magic and gods and demons have zero impact on how relationships work.

I didn't say they do. I just said I didn't see a lot that is "unrealistic."

But, granting a happy ending depending on Charname is a good idea. That way, the player can have what he/she really wants, especially when most of us have played the game over a hundred times and NEED some joy for what feels like the zillionth playthru! Or, those who actually do like downer endings can have that, as well. I feel strongly, I'll admit, that I want the possibility of a happy ending, both for personal preference, and in that, as I said, I think it is entirely subjective to think it "unrealistic." Of course, he's yours, and I'm just a Darian-lover with a hopeful heart! <3

There are other factors involved in whether Charname and Darian have an ending together or not. If not, I would say that Darian still has a happy ending - it's just not with Charname. As a matter of fact, I can tell you now that Darian will be a much happier person in ToB if he's not being romanced. It spares him a lesson that's already caused him, and may cause Charname, a great deal of pain.

Fair enough!

Oh, I tried a bit of an evil thing, just for fun...and did you know that in the Circus, if you take the Path of "not believing her to be an enchanted female" and you kill her, Darian doesn't say a thing? You can even leave the Tent and he says nothing. I didn't continue on indefinitely to wait to see if he would, for fear that the romance would be broken.

So...did I miss it, or did you forget that the player, especially a newbie, or evil one, romancing him or not, can kill Aerie and he doesn't react?
Or, I could have missed it. I missed his last LoveTalk in my first game, so I suppose it's possible that my load of mods or something didn't cause the dialog to trigger.

You, the player, aren't supposed to know that the ogre in the circus is Aerie. Darian doesn't know it, either. He also wouldn't twig to Aerie being an Avariel if all he sees is her corpse.

Yes, I mentioned that. There could be a new player (mentioned above) who doesn't know; so Darian could see her corpse and it's an ogre corpse? I thought with death the illusions were dispelled, and he would see her stumps. But if you say not, I believe you. I don't recall for certain.

Anyway, I think I've inadverdently offended you. I'll not comment here any more. I suppose I'm too new to this to know better. Anyway, I sincerely thank you for all your work. You have a great character here. Thank you.

[Civian]

2. If he is being romanced... sorry to say it, but as I'm getting a better grasp of things, I'm afraid that his romance in ToB will generally feel like a downer. A romantic relationship with Darian was never very realistic on Charname's part, and Darian feels out of his depth in ToB even before a relationship with Charname is added to it. A happy ending *is* possible, but Darian has some very good reasons to be uneasy about the relationship.

Considering the circumstances that the female protagonist finds herself in, it's strange how falling in love could be seen as realistic. So the belief that a relationship could be sustained is unrealistic would perhaps be the *most* realistic path.

That said, it would be nice to have a BIG reward at the end for all the hard work it seems the PC will have to do, on top of preventing the prophecy and all that.

[Kaeloree]

Call me kooky, but I actually love the idea that a romance with Darian could never work out. I'm a sucker for reality/"realistic" relationships, I guess.

[Choo Choo]

Call me kooky, but I actually love the idea that a romance with Darian could never work out. I'm a sucker for reality/"realistic" relationships, I guess.

You're kooky. Earn your happy ending is the best trope ever!