18 replies to this topic

[Hoppy]

Well I managed to install this monster to do some tests. Irenicus Dungeons has the new Bugbears that can't fit through doors . Maybe I can change that with some TDD scripts for locations.

That's no problem but now I have to go through and hand copy/rename 2da's for sounds cause that either didn't install or didn't exist. Did I miss a download or is this an "as is" for now? The only sounds component I saw in the Readme was for the svirfneblin.

[Miloch]

I didn't think they were *that* big but maybe they're pretty wide with the hardcoded weapon animation. It would be easy to downsize them since they don't have separate weapon animations. They should be about 7' tall, so larger than humans and hobgoblins but smaller than ogres.

The sounds are a work in progress since I have to export them from IWD/PST and write tables for them. The Distinctive Fiends have sounds also, but the rest I'm just doing when I get time. If you want, I can make bugbears a priority - the IWD ones are pretty easy to do.

[Hoppy]

'Miloch', on 06 April 2010 - 03:36 AM, said:

I didn't think they were *that* big but maybe they're pretty wide with the hardcoded weapon animation. It would be easy to downsize them since they don't have separate weapon animations. They should be about 7' tall, so larger than humans and hobgoblins but smaller than ogres.

The sounds are a work in progress since I have to export them from IWD/PST and write tables for them. The Distinctive Fiends have sounds also, but the rest I'm just doing when I get time. If you want, I can make bugbears a priority - the IWD ones are pretty easy to do.

They are a only bit large for Chateau Irenicus doorways but the CtB areas are large and open and that was the original mod to add them. I could just change location for TDD spawns or make them hobgoblin creatures instead of making more work for you.

About the sounds, I was first going to say that I can upload the 2da tables to match when I get done sorting them out in my game. Then I thought, that would only work for the English EXE right? The other regions use different file names because of the different characters according to regions?

Still trying to wrap my mind around all of this.

[Miloch]

'Hoppy', on 06 April 2010 - 05:17 PM, said:

They are a only bit large for Chateau Irenicus doorways but the CtB areas are large and open and that was the original mod to add them. I could just change location for TDD spawns or make them hobgoblin creatures instead of making more work for you.

Whatever you think best. I think it's truer to the original mod (if that matters anymore) to keep them as bugbears (possibly even the intent was to give them the bugbear animations but who knows anymore). It's probably not hard to downsize them - could even assign them new slots and keep both versions. If you want to try your hand at it, check out the BAM Resizer.

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About the sounds, I was first going to say that I can upload the 2da tables to match when I get done sorting them out in my game. Then I thought, that would only work for the English EXE right? The other regions use different file names because of the different characters according to regions?

No, sounds will work for everyone regardless of code page settings because I'm using my prefix (t-) rather than the weird characters (probably should've been done for the animations too but it's a bit late for that now). Check out the existing 2DAs with the mod or the svirfneblin or fiend packages for examples, and there's a G3 post about some of the limitations.

[Hoppy]

I don't think it will be a big deal to put them in a spot where they can move a little more freely. They just seem a little boxed in the hallways under Rielev's room ocation. It does look a little silly with random rest spawns to have these Bugbears appear in a little room at times. I will look and see if that is TDD or Big Picture adding those to the area.

[Miloch]

If this is the mod that replaces the Irenicus goblin spawns with other CREs, you might look at adding them as either dedicated actors in specific spots or add spawn points rather than replacing them. There is a cool function in Aurora (fj_add_area_structure) that can add stuff like that to areas very easily.

[Hoppy]

'Miloch', on 06 April 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

If this is the mod that replaces the Irenicus goblin spawns with other CREs, you might look at adding them as either dedicated actors in specific spots or add spawn points rather than replacing them. There is a cool function in Aurora (fj_add_area_structure) that can add stuff like that to areas very easily.

Nope, goblins are a spawn too as per the original I believe. It is a separate RNDHOBG5 entry or something similar. BP adds a RNDBPTHF as well so maybe both are BP. I'll check and adjust if possible for the TDD one at least.

[Eric P.]

'Hoppy', on 06 April 2010 - 01:19 PM, said:

I don't think it will be a big deal to put them in a spot where they can move a little more freely. They just seem a little boxed in the hallways under Rielev's room ocation. It does look a little silly with random rest spawns to have these Bugbears appear in a little room at times. I will look and see if that is TDD or Big Picture adding those to the area.

TDD adds the Bugbears.

- E

[maximus2001]

Just went through there and they are pretty big. I preferred the animation from bugbear spawns in the library of Kuldin in CTB. Looking at the IA list it is the bugbear captain (used in CTB) who is also a lot smaller and looks like an orc actually.

[Hoppy]

'maximus2001', on 06 April 2010 - 09:16 PM, said:

Just went through there and they are pretty big. I preferred the animation from bugbear spawns in the library of Kuldin in CTB. Looking at the IA list it is the bugbear captain (used in CTB) who is also a lot smaller and looks like an orc actually.

I see same sizes in Kuldin. Only two variations are armored and unarmored. The armored ones were the mixup with RoT's myconids and the normal ones are what I see in CI right now. Anyway, I might just change the location of them and giving them throwing axes and maces makes 'em really tough. Even on easy they were thrashing through berserker style. They are also hasted through the creature file so they are quite fun to fight.

Also I fixed a new bug I found regarding the exact block that spawns them in TDD (check the bug thread). If you reload in CI for whatever reasons, the block keeps firing even when the trigger global is not set to 0 so you get stacks of 6 of them each reload, whether you killed them all or not. Hard to notice but I had to keep testing some things and reloading a few times. As I kept reloading the stacks got bigger. There were 20 of them all dancing with each other and couldn't move out of the hall.


@Miloch

The rest interruption spawn for them is RDBUGB and I don't see anything interfering with RDGOB from the same area unless you meant the interference was the animations and it probably was the overwritten animation for ICGOBx before with the WeiDU-Baldurdash and TDD messiness. If you were referring to the plethora of ogres near the portal with the goblins, I think it was the block I mentioned above

Edited by Hoppy, 06 April 2010 - 10:08 PM.

[Miloch]

'Hoppy', on 07 April 2010 - 07:02 AM, said:

'maximus2001', on 06 April 2010 - 09:16 PM, said:

Just went through there and they are pretty big. I preferred the animation from bugbear spawns in the library of Kuldin in CTB. Looking at the IA list it is the bugbear captain (used in CTB) who is also a lot smaller and looks like an orc actually.

The bugbear captain is bigger actually (it's the one on the right).

But the megamod animations without IA are all screwed up, what with one overwriting another (and overwriting vanilla animations) so there's no telling what it actually showed up as. Maybe you're thinking of the neo-orog shaman? That's a different creature entirely (part ogre, part orc).

If you look at the bugbears next to other creatures in the readme though, they are quite big, with the captains as big as verbeegs - giants of about 9' height (bugbears are supposed to be around 7'). So it should be possible to downsize them at least by a few pixels. They shouldn't be bigger than ogres (also around 9').

Question though, Hoppy - judging from that script block in the other thread, the bugbears spawn with otyughs who are *much* wider than the bugbears (there's a variant of one to the right of the bugbear in the readme). I take it they couldn't've fit through the doors either?

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The rest interruption spawn for them is RDBUGB and I don't see anything interfering with RDGOB from the same area unless you meant the interference was the animations and it probably was the overwritten animation for ICGOBx before with the WeiDU-Baldurdash and TDD messiness. If you were referring to the plethora of ogres near the portal with the goblins, I think it was the block I mentioned above

No, I thought at some point a mod actually overwrote the spawns with different spawns entirely, but it could be another mod (maybe NEJ, not sure).

[Hoppy]

'Miloch', on 07 April 2010 - 05:18 AM, said:

Question though, Hoppy - judging from that script block in the other thread, the bugbears spawn with otyughs who are *much* wider than the bugbears (there's a variant of one to the right of the bugbear in the readme). I take it they couldn't've fit through the doors either?

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The rest interruption spawn for them is RDBUGB and I don't see anything interfering with RDGOB from the same area unless you meant the interference was the animations and it probably was the overwritten animation for ICGOBx before with the WeiDU-Baldurdash and TDD messiness. If you were referring to the plethora of ogres near the portal with the goblins, I think it was the block I mentioned above

No, I thought at some point a mod actually overwrote the spawns with different spawns entirely, but it could be another mod (maybe NEJ, not sure).

I am not sure if any otyughs, can fit or should fit through the doors coming from the sewer. The extra 2 spawn in the same place as the original one that the sewer golem feeds when you activate him so they appear to be caged anyway.

Not really sure why the script was bloating massive creatures every reload. Then again I may have reloaded once in the past and never payed any attention to some extra creatures until I actually looked at the block.

I looked at my save game variables and believe the reason is that a variable like "ar0602" will not be recorded so I think it was a bad choice for the trigger and action to do a Global("ar0602", etc, etc). Again hard to notice if one isn't reloading at all as it would not loop in straight game play.

[Miloch]

Well I resized the bugbears to roughly the height they should be, around 75% of the originals. No idea if they'll fit through the doors now but they should if ogres do.

From left to right, each creature with its average PnP height:
human (6'), hobgoblin (6-1/2'), bugbear (7'), bugbear captain (7-1/4'), gnoll (7-1/2'), ogre (9').
(The clown-coloured ones look funny because they're paletted.)

Question though: should I assign these bugbears new animation slots, or replace the larger ones (see above for those)? I'm leaning toward the former, because I know of no "giant bugbears" either in PnP or existing mods. Of course, if someone does come up with a use for them, we can always assign new slots then .

I've also ported the sounds, and (for the most part) the PS:T ghoul queen (Acaste) and night hag (Ravel) animations. The reason I did the ghoul queen is because it was the animation Cuv used, then I said "Wait, that's not a night hag!" (Ravel is in fact a night hag though).

They'll probably need to be downsized a tad too, but that's easy once all the sequences are ported.

[Hoppy]

'Miloch', on 07 April 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

Well I resized the bugbears to roughly the height they should be, around 75% of the originals. No idea if they'll fit through the doors now but they should if ogres do.

Cool! I think they will be big enough in comparison to humanoids. That makes them more usable too if they are about the size of a clay or flesh golem in width cause they can fit through doors.

'Miloch', on 07 April 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

Question though: should I assign these bugbears new animation slots, or replace the larger ones (see above for those)? I'm leaning toward the former, because I know of no "giant bugbears" either in PnP or existing mods. Of course, if someone does come up with a use for them, we can always assign new slots then .

Since you are taking the animations and using them for a more universal modding purpose, they can be the main slot. If you do decide to have a separate slots for the original sizes, then at least they are there for original reference and somebody can use them for Nuclear Bugbears or something.

'Miloch', on 07 April 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

I've also ported the sounds, and (for the most part) the PS:T ghoul queen (Acaste) and night hag (Ravel) animations. The reason I did the ghoul queen is because it was the animation Cuv used, then I said "Wait, that's not a night hag!" (Ravel is in fact a night hag though).

They'll probably need to be downsized a tad too, but that's easy once all the sequences are ported.

Yep the one on the left is what I wanted for TDD and Planar Sphere but the original PS:T ones (and Cuv's port) were a bit large for my taste. Should be about the size of humanoids or other female humanoids in my opinion. I think I reduced mine to 65% or 70% because they still looked too large even at 75%. I don't know I was having fun.


Here is a sample for comparison in game

Edited by Hoppy, 07 April 2010 - 04:22 PM.

[Miloch]

'Hoppy', on 08 April 2010 - 01:20 AM, said:

Yep the one on the left is what I wanted for TDD and Planar Sphere but the original PS:T ones (and Cuv's port) were a bit large for my taste. Should be about the size of humanoids or other female humanoids in my opinion. I think I reduced mine to 65% or 70% because they still looked too large even at 75%. I don't know I was having fun.

Eh, but those are ghoul queens not night hags And how'd they get to be *brown*? The PS:T animations are grey... Maybe it's just a funky lightmap there...

Yes, the night hag animation is ugly (the one on the right above). It's supposed to be - they're *hags* after all . It would be nice to use the ghoul queen somewhere appropriate but I dunno if there are any female ghoulish creatures in any mods...

75% should be about right for both - I have a rough spreadsheet with height/pixel calculations. That works them out to be about 5-1/2' as per PnP. Looks about right in your screenshot (except for the colour and animation ) though maybe that's closer to 80%. The original night hag could be used for an annis (if there are any) which are similar to night hags only taller (about 8' or so). I could also repalette it for green hags and sea hags while I'm at it. I don't know if there are any of those in mods, but it's good to do all the PnP variants at once so they're all in one spot.

Edit: "The night hag is a hideous dark blue-violet color, with black hair and glowing red eyes" (per PnP, MM v1). Well it's not grey or brown anyway, so that one on the right above is closer ...

Edited by Miloch, 07 April 2010 - 05:10 PM.

[Hoppy]

'Miloch', on 07 April 2010 - 05:52 PM, said:

'Hoppy', on 08 April 2010 - 01:20 AM, said:

Yep the one on the left is what I wanted for TDD and Planar Sphere but the original PS:T ones (and Cuv's port) were a bit large for my taste. Should be about the size of humanoids or other female humanoids in my opinion. I think I reduced mine to 65% or 70% because they still looked too large even at 75%. I don't know I was having fun.

Eh, but those are ghoul queens not night hags And how'd they get to be *brown*? The PS:T animations are grey... Maybe it's just a funky lightmap there...

Yes, the night hag animation is ugly (the one on the right above). It's supposed to be - they're *hags* after all . It would be nice to use the ghoul queen somewhere appropriate but I dunno if there are any female ghoulish creatures in any mods...

75% should be about right for both - I have a rough spreadsheet with height/pixel calculations. That works them out to be about 5-1/2' as per PnP. Looks about right in your screenshot (except for the colour and animation ) though maybe that's closer to 80%. The original night hag could be used for an annis (if there are any) which are similar to night hags only taller (about 8' or so). I could also repalette it for green hags and sea hags while I'm at it. I don't know if there are any of those in mods, but it's good to do all the PnP variants at once so they're all in one spot.

Hah! My mistake about the hags and the queen. I should probably play PS:T instead of it collecting dust.

Yeah TDD just uses a Bodhi dupe for its night hags and Planar Sphere may use a ghost or something. This is from the area where the actual creatures are and less shadows (they are brownish in shadows or low light). Caught one casting a spell





If I should use the Ravel animation instead that is fine and is probably better if I do so it doesn't conflict with other Night Hag animation adding mods. I just wanted to add some variety for TDD monsters in the future so anything is worth trying out


EDIT: 80% was the final that I used for that size. I used the Python software with Cuv's to get the right size for these as the default 75% (from the tutorial on Python) was still too large for me. they came out with no twitch or clipping. My Annah redux came out like crap and twitchy but I wanted a nice NPC size for a tiefling and use for super-cute Fade.


EDIT2: I think I might prefer the actual Ravel as it looks better in size and to keep it intact with the original PS:T creature.

Edited by Hoppy, 07 April 2010 - 09:49 PM.

[Miloch]

'Hoppy', on 08 April 2010 - 02:23 AM, said:

My Annah redux came out like crap and twitchy but I wanted a nice NPC size for a tiefling and use for super-cute Fade.

The Annah has to be redone anyway. Well all of Cuvs animations have to be converted from IWD to BG2 type slots, but paletted ones have even more issues. Erephine said she converted most of those, including the male and female tieflings, which I requested, so I guess we just have to wait for her to reappear. The paletted ones are beyond my present skill, but I think I've got the hang of the unpaletted ones.

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EDIT2: I think I might prefer the actual Ravel as it looks better in size and to keep it intact with the original PS:T creature.

PS:T animations are quite a bit bigger in BG2, hence the need to downsize. But you can experiment with them yourself in the archive I just uploaded. I think the night_hag should be best for night hags . (Also uploaded the corrected bugbears and their sounds.)

For the hags, you'll have to append the .ids files and change the .cre animation values yourself for now, until I get around to updating the .tp2. In the meantime, you could help by giving me a list of CREs that need to be patched. Let me know if you see any that the ghoul_queen would work for too.

[Hoppy]

'Miloch', on 08 April 2010 - 07:54 AM, said:

For the hags, you'll have to append the .ids files and change the .cre animation values yourself for now, until I get around to updating the .tp2. In the meantime, you could help by giving me a list of CREs that need to be patched. Let me know if you see any that the ghoul_queen would work for too.

Will do! Would ghoul queens work well for Banshee or an alternative animation for them?

[Miloch]

'Hoppy', on 08 April 2010 - 04:57 PM, said:

Will do! Would ghoul queens work well for Banshee or an alternative animation for them?

I think the wailing_virgin is somewhat better. Maybe we could just patch a few spectres or ghasts to be female ones instead or something - I did that with the fire and frost giants in the NWN component.