87 replies to this topic

[Wisp]

Maybe I can do something to spice him up, but I don't want to promise anything. And he and other more creative undead will probably come after the remaining generic undead.

[Shaitan]

Nice, looking foreward to see wether you come up with a nice idea or not. Thanks in advance

[DavidWallace]

Picking up belatedly on this:

Yeah, I decided to hold off on Vampires for the initial release. The compatibility situation with SCSII is more complex, so I may opt for a "PnP Vampires" component instead of baking them into PnP Undead.

I don't see a reason why Vampires should have their own component. They are undead, aren't they?

Because SCS has a "Smarter Vampires" component but not a "Smarter Undead" component. So it makes sense to want, e.g., SCS Vampires but aTweaks other undead. (You could do this via subcomponents of the "PnP Undead" component; it would come to the same thing.)

And also, I wouldn't worry about PnP Vampires being incompatible with SCS II. Both modifications come with optional components and it's enough to avoid installing them both. I find it normal and somewhat unavoidable to have clashes between SCS and ATweaks.

Well, Wisp and I (mostly Wisp) have been trying reasonably hard to avoid clashes of this kind.

Incidentally, @Wisp:

(i) Have you thought of doing a "scripting only" version of PnP undead, just as with Fiends? I love the scripting but I'm a little worried that the statistic nerfs will make some of the undead incompatible at high levels.
(ii) Are you going to do Liches? (I suggest not, until and unless you want to do an aTweaks version of "smarter mages" - it's fairly hard to separate out good lich scripting from good mage scripting more generally.)

[Andrea C.]

(ii) Are you going to do Liches? (I suggest not, until and unless you want to do an aTweaks version of "smarter mages" - it's fairly hard to separate out good lich scripting from good mage scripting more generally.)

I've been thinking of that for a while- I love everything aTWEAKS does (I'm a P&P bitch and I love smarter AI) but it occurred to me that enemies who belong to the playable races--and especially mages--would remain "stupid". Indeed, having a "smarter mages" aTWEAKS component to go with P&P liches, ogre magi and other spellcasters (including enemies of the playable races) would be pretty awesome.

[DavidWallace]

SCS's Smarter Mage/Priest scripting is compatible with aTweaks. (Though of course if Avenger/Wisp want to write their own mage/priest scripting, more power to them.)

[Andrea C.]

Using SCS in conjuction with aTWEAKS is something I've been considering. It all comes down to what P&P components are available- if P&P liches and ogre magi get done and require their own AI tweaking I wouldn't want SCS to override it, but rather take care of the remaining spellcasters. Not sure that could be done?

Another thing I've been wondering about is whether Galactygon's spell pack would call for (slightly?) altered AI scripting. I've only found out about it after my last playthrough, so I've never played with it, but I would surely like to try it out next time. Not sure whether smarter mages tweaks rely heavily on spells' behaviors that the spell pack significantly alters, thus requiring ad hoc scripting to adap?

[DavidWallace]

The agreement between me and Wisp is that SCS installs first, so it would be a matter of aTweaks overwriting SCS, not vice versa. Having said which, while I can see that a PnP ogre mage would be quite interesting, liches are basically undead wizards, so SCS lich AI probably stands and falls with SCS mage AI in general.

I did look into Galactygon's spell pack a while ago. I make some (very limited) allowance for it; in any case, I don't think SCS does anything completely crazy if it's installed.

[Wisp]

(i) Have you thought of doing a "scripting only" version of PnP undead, just as with Fiends? I love the scripting but I'm a little worried that the statistic nerfs will make some of the undead incompatible at high levels.

It has crossed my mind, but at the time I decided to hold off until a later version or someone requests it. I'll consider it requested, so it should go in with the code restructuring I have in progress.

(ii) Are you going to do Liches? (I suggest not, until and unless you want to do an aTweaks version of "smarter mages" - it's fairly hard to separate out good lich scripting from good mage scripting more generally.)

I have decided that when/if I do liches, they would only receive aTweaks scripts if no better scripts mod was already installed (e.g., SCSII). In that case, they would retain their existing scripts and only receive the touch attack (of dubious utility though it may be), whatever stat changes I deem reasonable, and the aura, if I can wing it.